Ada Yip

Shifting Consumers Off Plastic - Ada Yip, Urban Spring | Entrepreneur For Good

As the world may be finally waking up to the challenge that plastic is presenting out environment, and for many, the plastic beverage bottle is one of the products that is front and center.

In Hong Kong though, the people at Urban Spring think they have a solution that will help reduce the number of plastic bottles that the city is sending to landfill. Something that over the last two months has grown more urgent as China has closed its borders to waste imports.

To learn more about their mission, and how they are attacking the challenge of getting consumers to act more responsibly, I spoke with their CEO Ada Yip to learn more.


This interview is about solving one of the biggest problems we face through sustainable consumer change.


About the Entrepreneurs For Good Series

Through this series, we speak with Asia based entrepreneurs whose mission it is to bring solutions to the environmental, social, and economic challenges that are faced within the region to learn more about their vision, the opportunities they see, and challenges that they have had to overcome.

It is a series that we hope will not only engage and inspire you, but catalyze you and your organizations into action. To identify a challenge that is tangible, and build a business model (profit or non) that brings a solution to the market.


About Ada

Ada is the Executive Director at Urban Spring, a purpose-driven start-up with a mission to reduce the consumption of single-use plastic in Hong Kong through the provision of safe and modern water drinking experience.

Ada is also a co-founder of 43 Ventures which invests financial and human capital in innovative social start-ups.

Follow Ada and Urban Spring
Website: http://www.urbanspring.hk/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ada.yip.18
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ada-yip-hongkong


About Rich

Driven by the belief that change begins with a single step, Richard Brubaker has spent the last 15 years in Asia working to engage, inspire, and equip those around him to take their first step. Acting as a catalyst to driving sustainability, Brubaker works with government, corporate, academic and non-profit stakeholders to bring together knowledge, teams, and tools that develop and execute their business case for sustainability.

Follow Rich
Website: http://www.richbrubaker.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rich.brubaker
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richbrubaker
Snapchat: http://snapchat.com/add/richbrubaker
Instagram: https://instagram.com/richbrubaker
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/richbrubaker

Contact Rich
[email protected]


Full Interview Transcript

RICH: Welcome back everyone. Thank you for joining. We are here with Ada Yip who is with Urban Spring and we are standing in front of their Well product, which is just going out to the market. We're here to talk to day about social entrepreneurship, building a project that changes mindsets and really just maintaining a positive attitude as your building your enterprise going forward. So we hope you enjoy this episode, if you do please like, share and comment.

BACKGROUND

RICH: So do me a favor and give us an introduction about yourself and about Well.

ADA YIP: So I'm born and brought up in Hong Kong. So home grown sort of Asian girl and you know I've been in actually in a corporate world for more than 15 years. The four years ago I decided that I want to explore social entrepreneurship and got to network with a lot of people you know, meet the fonder of Urban Strain, which Well is our first product. That's how I got into you know starting to work with the company two years ago and develop the product. Well is basically a new design water station, which we hope that people would refill. You know, really develop, redevelop that trust with drinking water outside home and offices. So the mission really is to reduce consumption of single use plastic bottles. We want to provide that alternative.

RICH: So you're trying to basically get rid of the plastic bottle at the end of the day.

ADA YIP: I hope so.

THE PLASTIC PROBLEM

RICH: Why is that a problem? I think we've all seen on the news, in the oceans, but is there a particular problem with plastic and single use plastic in Hong Kong itself?

ADA YIP: Every single day we've got 5 million tons of plastic waste just a day in Hong Kong. Majority of those are actually plastic bottles. The majority of the plastic bottle is actually water bottles so that's why were' coming from so it's really a huge problem and we're just talking about Hong Kong. As far as I know, all the major cities in the world each year is a double digit increase in bottle sales.

RICH: Now I kind of think like when it comes to these issues, we've had NGOs for years tell us that we should reduce, reuse, recycle that we should bring our own bottles, things like that. It hasn't worked. I mean, honestly, we're still using more and more plastic every day. How is your approach different? I mean you're using your building product, you're bringing a business solution, how is this different than just pure advocating? How do you think this might change the market?

ADA YIP: I think you know Richard, you hit the point. I mean, we are providing a product i.e. an alternative. So I think that nonprofit world actually has done a fantastic job basically educating and bringing that awareness in the past you know decade actually. But bringing you the bulk bottle, it helps, but then if I'm really thirsty in the middle of Causeway Bay or Central, I cannot find water I cannot refill. I'm really thirsty. I have to go into convenience store and supermarket and buy.

Today I am offering an alternative, i.e. if you bring your own bottle, or if you buy your first disposable of the day, you can actually go and refill as opposed to buy another one. You know, if no more like in a really hot day, people buy 2 or 3 but ends up only buy one for laze people that don't bring their own bottles, we're already saving a lot. So I think having that alternative giving people that choice is important. So I think we worked, I see it as a collaboration with the charities basically did they very good with advocating working with the government on communication and education and we focus on the product and work with them on that communication and awareness and all that.

More importantly I think what we try to do its really bring the product. i.e not everyone is environmentally friendly, but every one wants to look cool. Everyone has got an attitude how they want to live a sustainable life and we hope to provide that option.

MARKETING THE IDEA

RICH: How do you change the mindsets? I mean you know we talked about, I was actually kind of thinking I've started carrying my own hot and cold bottles now. I'll go to Starbucks with one if I want a hot or cold coffee. How do you get people to think that this is cool? Because eventually, even not just cool, like I'm not going to embarrassed by carrying this bottle around with me to a meeting. How....is that because you like try different bottles, you try different cups? But at some point you still have to carry the thing around, so how do you help people just realize that it's ok to carry this around?

ADA YIP: I mean as you say the toughest is actually not the product all those were quite painful to do product development. The toughest thing for our business is changing peoples behavior you know to a point about actually carrying a bottle. So I think a couple of things I think one is from a sort of branding perspective and how we position ourselves. I'm not fighting against convenience. You know because whether its Hong Kong or some other country, buying and dumping more recycling it's so easy.

So I think it's about how carrying that bottle or cup, it's basically a reflection of who you are. A lot of consumer brands are actually doing that. So, if people feel that you know a gentleman with a suit on for you that they are kind of cool carrying you know that chain store cup, you know around and you know almost a display of their way of life having that morning coffee. Why would they not feel that if I portrayed also saved with a certain image.

It's very tricky. But, I think the younger generation definitely have already bought into the idea. So, I think it's how good the infrastructure.

EARLY ADOPTERS

RICH: Who's the easiest to turn over right now for you? Do you just focus on them only and then work on the harder people later or do you invest into the people because the return is so much greater later? Like upfront it's more difficult. How do you make that decision?

ADA YIP: You know its tricky. I would say the early adopters would be the younger people and the people who are doing sports. People already carrying the bottle. Almost I'm basically providing the convenience for them. Then for corporate, that's also who I want to target, but probably the corporate who want to get consumers or want to be in line with the younger people sporting people. So that would be my early adopters and then I move on to the semi convert and then the hardest one ya know they were further down the line. I think just like any products, I can't aim on day one to the selling and basically influence in every single person. So I think it's really up to us with the resources that we have, how do you strategize and work with different parties to make a bigger impact and they're showing maybe a long time.

FUNDING SOURCES

RICH: Who's going to pay for this at the end of the day? Because you walk up...do you walk up, pay for this with your phone? Like how does this work?

ADA YIP: So today, its paid by the venue that holds. So for example the shopping center they see it as part of customer service. For schools it's part of the facilities. Later on we would develop which to reach the payment feature because as we roll out to more space I can imagine there would be a common shop that cannot basically provide this for free to use it. But I do you know if this is a good replacement of them selling bottled water, they were great they don't have to keep inventory, you know soo ..

RICH: So they can sell this.

ADA YIP: Yeah so they can sell basically per refill. So you know so they're different payment models. This early stage we're lucky to be working with people who would be basically hosting as a subscription. We trying not to sell the product the reason so that like a photocopy machine. That we are, we can maintain the brand basically do our own servicing, make sure everything is good system and standard servicing.

DEFINING SUCCESS

RICH: So appear to look out say 5 years from now, what do you want your kep metrics of success? So if you look back and you say we succeeded, what would success be for you? The number of bottles? What's....

ADA YIP: I think the answer is I see situations where people are competing, how good looking the water bottles are. Or people you know in a group of friends, someone being you know making a comment say what are you doing with a disposable? That will be a scenario that I would like to see if that's the sort of part of a movement that we are part of. I will be really excited.

Obviously is from business perspective and the traditional matrix will be around how many of this get installed. To me, I think the behavior and how people see disposable, how people are embracing news, it is probably more satisfying. But from you know obviously form the financial standpoint, it would be basically how many of these get in stores and also not just number of installation, but that how many get saved. How many water get dispensed as opposed to you know what if you consume through the plastic bottle.

EXPECTATIONS vs. REALITY

RICH: So actually I want to change here a little bit. You come from the business background, you came into the social entrepreneur background, or social inner space, what did you think about social entrepreneurship before you got into it? What do you think about it now?

ADA YIP: It was more out of interest. How does that work? I think that I'm still very positive about that. I mean I hope one day no one talks about social entrepreneurship because there is just entrepreneurs and that's it right? So and I think the interesting thing is although we have gone up sort of that, this field called social entrepreneurship, but actually people who are in it a lot of them are not really believing in it. i.e. they still not just struggling with the business and the social impact, but really you know they don't believe in it and the sense that they are still running it like a nonprofit.

So I think there's still a long way to go although I'm on the positive side. How we set up not the majority i.e. we are set up as a limited company by shares. We are very, we believe in actually not distributing, not limiting the distribution of profit like some ____________(11:51). Because we truly believe we can, you know we can have a sustainable business and attracting the right investors in. You know we don't' have to set up a particular way so that people feel that wall is doing good some money is set aside to do it like that. It's just this is the way we believe this is the reason we set up the company is because of that social mention and that's it. Obviously governance, operation it needs haltering. It all needs to support that, but it doesn't need to be restricted by certain financials.

IT's JUST BUSINESS

RICH: Especially when you would have been starting this, there was still a premium to be called a social entrepreneur. That was actually an attractive feature, but what you're saying is you're actually flipping it. You see more the value and saying no, we're just a business. Like, we have a social mission. We're trying to solve it, but were' not going to play the social entrepreneurship card.

ADA YIP: Yes and no. So I'm not playing that card so for people who are not understanding social entrepreneurship, I don't call myself social enterprise. It would just confuse them more and then I got them to think so are you a charity? So, I'm just a startup with a very clean mission. That's it. They just focus on what I am selling and operating.

But the no part it, I think we still need to have this subject or this category called social entrepreneurship because I don't think we're in a world that people believe business and social can come together or actually have a greater value if they do both. So we almost need to have this category so that people focus in thinking about I, discussing about it, until everyone is on the same page. Then we probably can get there and just talk about entrepreneurship. But we're not there yet. So you know that's why farm like this its a good channel to really just have a healthy debate . You know of different schoolof thoughts and how people approach it.

RICH: Great, I think that's all. Thank you very much for your time. It's been a pleasure.


For more interviews from the "Entrepreneurs for Good" series, check out the playlist here.

Stay tuned for more clips and full interviews in the coming weeks.


Simon Vogel

Food Entrepreneurship, and Bootstrapping, in Shanghai - Simon Vogel | Entrepreneurs For Good

In this episode of Entrepreneurs For Good, I speak with Simon Vogel about his attempt to build health food delivery platform, from the 17th floor of an apartment building.

It is an amazing look at how creative entrepreneurs can get when bootstrapping!


Simon's Story is one about bootstrapping in China, failing fast, and (hopefully) learning faster


About the Entrepreneurs For Good Series

Through this series, we speak with Asia based entrepreneurs whose mission it is to bring solutions to the environmental, social, and economic challenges that are faced within the region to learn more about their vision, the opportunities they see, and challenges that they have had to overcome.

It is a series that we hope will not only engage and inspire you, but catalyze you and your organizations into action. To identify a challenge that is tangible, and build a business model (profit or non) that brings a solution to the market.


About Simon Vogel

When coming to Asia a couple of years ago, he wanted to open a restaurant but quickly realized that it would not be as easy as he thought. Instead of that, he launched a business in delivery food.

Follow Simon and Saucepan:
Website: http://saucepan.co
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/simon-vogel-87055715/simon


About Rich

Driven by the belief that change begins with a single step, Richard Brubaker has spent the last 15 years in Asia working to engage, inspire, and equip those around him to take their first step. Acting as a catalyst to driving sustainability, Brubaker works with government, corporate, academic and non-profit stakeholders to bring together knowledge, teams, and tools that develop and execute their business case for sustainability.

Follow Rich
Website: http://www.richbrubaker.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rich.brubaker
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richbrubaker
Instagram: https://instagram.com/richbrubaker
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/richbrubaker

Contact Rich
[email protected]


Full Transcript

SIMON VOGEL, SAUCEPAN

My name is Simon. I'm from Switzerland. Working here what we set up a company called Saucepan, which is a food delivery company. Been here in Shanghai from, lets say almost two year now.

WHY SHANGHAI?

Well, I, well basically me and my partner both came, we cant to Shanghai because we had like some family members here and definitely the markets is very interesting market to be part of nowadays. Previously, me, I was studying in a hospitality school in Switzerland and also I was working for sometimes for hotels, different 5-Star hotel brands.

WHY BECOME AN ENTREPRENEUER?

Well, to be honest, like I said like we were always like involved in a food in the food industry, in the food and beverage industry. Me coming closer to the thirty year, but the age 30 I was thinking like I need to do something which has more meaning. Well, looking at the market like Shanghai or China or if you take the big picture Asia, I think there is a lot of things you can do here in terms of foods. Especially delivering clean and trusted food to people's home.

THE FIRST STEPS

To be honest, it was more that we didn't had like a clear plan. I'd say like this because we came here with the idea of more opening a restaurant. So, we came here in 2014 and then we just realized it was like at the time where all the rents was getting higher and higher and it was just commenting suicide if we would have open a restaurant at least back then in the days. So, then more and more we were looking about what was existing in the markets and what we saw. How the consumer behavior. How they are like ordering delivery food delivery form time to time. We were saying okay, this could be like an interesting concept like to actually bring the food to people's home.

Initially, we started with a three specific business model, which we completely failed. Then, we had to privates back in December last year and now we are like right on track on a food delivery ready-to-eat business.

THE FIRST CONSUMER

Well, we specifically targeted expat at the beginning because we were feeling much more comfortable with the expat markets. We were coming form what we both know this how I conduct the consumer behavior of an expat. However, more and more we were like working on our concept. More and more we were realizing that the locals were also interested in a healthy food delivery concept. So that's how we realized that our concept would be both, as a market fit for both expats and locals.

So we started targeting the expat markets because we both, the two founders of this company are true expats and for us it was much more easier to tie it to stats with a consumers that we knew in the past. It was much more easier for us to target this clientele. However, more and more we were operating, we realized that Chinese, local customers were also interested in this concept. Now we feel that we have the right market fit for both locals and expats.

PILOTING AND PIVOTING

Well, I said we had like low capital to start with. We could not, this is also why we switch the concept initially not to go into a restaurant idea because rent wise was too expensive. So we were really looking about how we could save maximum amount of money. Initially we started from an apartment. Then we said okay, where can we find a place where we could operate. Then we checked a bit around the market and we saw ok, we could like here we're in China. We could maybe rent out an apartment and really like renovate it and then operate from there. This is how we decided really like to inject money like step by step and first to see if the concept is working before like investing a higher amount of money.

For instance, with our initial plan it was more, how do you say? We could say the first five months we tested the product, we tested the market and it the way we say the initial, our initial idea, there was no real demand bind it. This is where it pushed us to pirate the business model in December and this is where we now are fully operational.

EXTENDING THE RUNWAY

I believe first, was the rent issue because running a food and beverage business you need a good location. We could not afford this at the beginning so this is why we initially started off in an apartment.

Second thing is definitely manpower. Manning represents a very high cost and this is where we initially had and still today, have hands on in operation and try to avoid, just like hiring a lot of people because we can do it ourselves. We need to be in operations.

The third thing which represents also high costs. If you don't have an IT team. It definitely building up the website building up an app or building up a WeChat store. This is where we looked into our friends and family network. If there was not someone who could like assist us in building a website, which also we found.

I think these are three major expenses that we're going on us. Definitely the personal expenses because we can't like, how do you say? Give us a payroll at this early stage. So, making sure that we are outside work we are living on a very low profile and making sure that we can survive here without spending all the money from the company.

BOOTSTRAP MARKETING
Since day one, we spend zero on the company marketing. The only cost we had in marketing was maybe was like for some like fairs that we took part of, but it was very, very little cost. The thing is we could, we don't have, we didn't have the budget for this marketing and we believe more in word-of-mouth. So, we believe that if we have a product which is, how do you say? Good enough, people will talk around this product and talk to their friends.

How we also managed to have a very low marketing cost was like doing like partnerships with already existing startups, existing company's we have already renamed here. Food bloggers, everything that we can do where we are increasing our visibility, our brand image in the city.

LEVERAGING SOCIAL MEDIA
We don't pay for influences. Again, I said, it's more we are going to food bloggers. We would maybe pay them in foods like we are trying to do this strategy of influence the influences. Where food bloggers who would try our food and then write on a blog post about us. Or, for instance, now we recently also started with some brand ambassadors. Like people who are working out in the gym or working out as a yoga teacher that they can influence their class. The people who are joining them in their class. Otherwise, was mainly social media was managed by ourselves. You have like WeChat, which is very strong here. Posting, accepting friends, trying to get like a big network of friends. Let's say posting on the asking people to post on their movements and so on and so forth.

BEST WAY TO INFLUENCE CONSUMERS

Yeah, basically it's a mix. It's like on a way its food porn in terms of food. So like attract the customers towards our foods, like showing them images of our food that we are doing.

BOOTSTRAPPING
Yeah, well hire the right team is definitely one of a very important factor. Then also yes, spend your money but wisely on marketing for instance. We didn't have money and we achieved pre a successful milestone without spending any money into marketing. So I think you don't need to get funding and suddenly like just spend all over marketing. You need really like to make like, I don't know, smart investment in this kind of field.

Another thing would be like don't spend all your money on like useless equipment, especially like in kitchen. You need a lot of equipment whereas it's fridges or knives or whatsoever. So, better to choose like a more safe way to spend money and like really like see what you need, really need rather than just buying all kind of equipment. Packaging as well, for us was like a big waste of money at the beginning because we were testing the waters. We were testing our concept and we were just buying packaging right and left.

Finally, we found ourselves with, I don't' know, more than 2,000 boxes which we were not using. So definitely these are important things.

WHAT'S THE MISSION?
I think we are trying to change the future of food delivery. We really want that people have access to health foods, trusted meals with healthy meals using trusted ingredients. So we really want to disrupt this market of food delivery and fast foods by giving like products which are very like healthy for your body, but also like very using like clean ingredients. Like something that you can really trust.

So what are we, what we are trying to solve here and what we are, our mission really to disrupt this food delivery market. We want to give people access to clean food and healthy meals. So this is where we are trying to disrupt all this food delivery and fast food industry.

SCALING WITH LIMITED RESOURCES
Well, I think we have a pretty smart business concept where it's pretty easy to scale because you can all like produce centrally and then dispatch in like further delivery units. You don't need to control or build up a kitchen for each of your units. You just need to build up delivery hubs. If you go in cities and then just like build up a central kitchen and then be able to dispatch to the oldest units you can scale pretty fast in a short period of time.

CHINA. IT'S HUGE
I think China is a huge market. That's what makes it so interesting. It's so big and there's so many people here. Which makes it like anyone, not any conept can be successful here. But it gives you a lot of room even if you have, even if it's highly competitive market, it gives you enough room for you to get your customers and then operate your business.

YOUNG ADVANTAGE
Well, at the end of the day, we both, we don't' have a family so if we fail and now we will try to do something again. Maybe fail again and if we don't have like something that, yeah that where we have to succeed in the first concept we are launching. I think is even if we proven with our old concept we failed fast, we modified the business model, we switched, we made a pilot and then we try it again.

This is what we are both strongly believe in. We will keep moving and keep trying until we have the right market fit and keep failing, that's for sure.

BIGGEST FAILURE
I think you know, we were I think we were pretty frustrated at the beginning when we tried this initial concept. Because we believe in our, in one concept, but it was not what the market was asking for. So this is where we learned on actually you need to listen to what the market is demanding rather than listening to yourself and just think this could be a great concept.


For more interviews from the "Entrepreneurs for Good" series, check out the playlist here.

Stay tuned for more clips and full interviews in the coming weeks.


Nissa Marion

Sustainable Luxury and Social Entrepreneurship | Nissa Marion

In this episode of Entrepreneurs For Good, I speak with Nissa Marion, a lifelong environmentalist who launch EcoVision magazine from her apartment floor in Hong Kong.

Looking to convert readers to a sustainable lifestyle through a link between sustainability and a luxurious lifestyle, she set about the work of identifying brands, writing stories, and build a community of followers who would support her work.

As we discuss in the interview, the work wasn't always easy, and she did not always know what to do, but that is the path of entrepreneurship and one that she was committed to.


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About the Entrepreneurs For Good Series

Through this series, we speak with Asia based entrepreneurs whose mission it is to bring solutions to the environmental, social, and economic challenges that are faced within the region to learn more about their vision, the opportunities they see, and challenges that they have had to overcome.

It is a series that we hope will not only engage and inspire you, but catalyze you and your organizations into action. To identify a challenge that is tangible, and build a business model (profit or non) that brings a solution to the market.


About Nissa Marion

Nissa Marion is a Hong Kong based environmentalist. Born and raised in Canada, she deeply loves nature and wild places, and believes that education, engagement, and collaboration are the keys to sustainability.

In 2003, Nissa’s passion for conservation led her to work with Ecovision, a fifteen-year established non-profit social enterprise specializing in environmental education and events. From there she went on to cofound and direct the well-loved Hong Kong Cleanup (HKcleanup.org), a large-scale community environmental event that has engaged more than 250,000 participants and cleaned up over 17 million pieces of trash. This successful initiative raises awareness of personal, community and corporate environmental responsibility as well as advocating for sustainable government policies regarding waste management.

Nissa was also the Cofounder, Editor in Chief and Event Director of Ecozine, Asia’s premiere guide to modern sustainable living, which produces a quarterly print magazine, a daily-updated website (Ecozine.com), a weekly e-newsletter and world-class events such as Hong Kong’s own Zero Waste Week, successfully launched in 2015. She is committed to using popular media to focus the world’s attention on environmental issues and inspire change for the better.

Follow Nissa:
Website: http://onpointhk.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/nmarion
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nissamarion/


About Rich

Driven by the belief that change begins with a single step, Richard Brubaker has spent the last 15 years in Asia working to engage, inspire, and equip those around him to take their first step. Acting as a catalyst to driving sustainability, Brubaker works with government, corporate, academic and non-profit stakeholders to bring together knowledge, teams, and tools that develop and execute their business case for sustainability.

Follow Rich
Website: http://www.richbrubaker.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rich.brubaker
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richbrubaker
Instagram: https://instagram.com/richbrubaker
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/richbrubaker

Contact Rich
[email protected]


Full Interview Transcript

My name is Nissa Marrion. I am the co-founder and editor in chief of Ecozine magazine and also the co-founder of an NGO called The Hong Kong Clean Up. My mission in life is to make the world a better place, no really. To be a contribution in my personal and professional life and I've been really lucky to create a career where actually my job is about that too.

IT'S PERSONAL

I've always been an environmentalist. Like I grew up in Canada, camping, canoeing, all that wonderful stuff. And just communing with nature. I went to a pretty progressive high school, so hung out with a lot of hippie, dippie, fantastic people who just got it. That kind of planted the seed for me of wanting to make sure that I do my part in protecting the planet. And it sounds cheesy, but like I'm just a real tree hugger, ya know? I love nature. It makes me really sad the way that our development as a people has destroyed the planet in many ways and continues to do so. So honestly, I just wanna see people care about nature. So that's one side of it.

Then, I've always been interested in the publishing world and one day, four years ago now, my best friend came to me and said hey I 've got this idea. We know so many people in the environmental sector, and so many small startups and great companies and cool NGOs and fantastic campaigns that need a platform to reach the public. Why don't we be that platform? Why don't we start a magazine? It just made sense. I was like yeah, ok! I had no idea what it was gonna take. Like what that would actually entail. But, it sounded really cool and excited and right up my alley, so I said yes. And we co-founded Ecozine.

GETTING STARTED

We have this NGO called the Hong Kong Clean Up and we've been running that since 2000. My best friend and business partner, Lisa, founded that. And through it, you know, we engage corporate, schools, community members and other NGOs, and government. So we were able to create this incredible community of companies, especially but also other sectors that were doing great things. I had great CSR profiles or launching cool eco products, or just you know, wanted to make the world a better place. At the same time we were seeing more and more sort of evidence that consumers, the evidence that consumers were interested in more than just a label on a product, or the price of a precut. That they really wanted to see products of province and responsibility from companies that they trusted. And wasn't necessarily in Hong Kong a really strong publication that connected those two worlds. That brought, you know, the people with the great ideas and products and CSR initiatives to the consumers that wanted to buy from those companies.

So, we decided that we wanted to be that crossroads because we had such access to both sides of that. So at the same time, having always been passionate about magazines and publications and popular media as a means to convey important messages, it just made sense for us. To start a magazine.

We started by launching an online publication, Ecozine.com. That name came after a good 3 months of thinking about names. I mean this process was very much of a backburner, sort of passion project for us, in our spare time, late nights, mid night coffees, that kind of thing. Just creating what we thought would be cool. The website was the result of...(not noisy at all! (ha, start at midnight coffee's. A lot of helicopters today)). And the website was a result of literally nights of just sketching and drawing what a cool website would look like and referencing hundreds of other websites and you know. We had no experience in this whatsoever in building websites, in developing media, in editorial and advertising. So it was a really fun, but challenging journey. A really steep learning curve and that was just for the website.

So we got that launched in 2012. The model was sponsorship. Because that's where we had experience from our NGO background. But it turned out to be more challenging than we expected to get companies here in Asia to sponsor a page in a website. It was a quite a new and innovative model that wasn't...people weren't ready to embrace it just yet in Asia. So we did some asking around and we thought about what to do and we decided that okay, a print magazine might be a good addition. And people thought we were crazy because so many publications are going from print to digital and cutting their print publications because of costs, because of change to the industry. But we found that here in Asia, although a lot of companies were saying they wanted to do more digital marketing and be online and take advantage of the digital world, actually when they saw a proposal with a full-page ad cost this much will be in this many issues and seen by this many people, they really got it and were able to say yes.

So the print magazine turned out to be a terrific thing for us in so many ways. One, it was self indulgent. I mean, so nice to hold a product in your hand and say I made this...every font, every page, every word, every photo, the size of the margin, the texture of the paper, it's all...we created it. So that was pretty gratifying. Also, as a revenue stream, the online just wasn't cutting it at that time so having a print edition gave us a way to bring in dollars and make this a real company and not just a side project. And also, a marketing tool. So now that the print magazines on shelves and in cafes and all over the place, we're able to say hey, you like that? There's more online, come visit us. Our online traffic has increased.

WHY HONG KONG?

We chose to do this in Hong Kong just exactly because this is Hong Kong and it is struggling with sustainability and it is behind in a lot of ways. There would be no point in launching a magazine like Ecozine in San Francisco. They get it. They're there. Okay, the market has arrived. Whereas in Hong Kong, it's such a huge opportunity. There is a niche for a thing like me, a magazine like Ecozine. There are people who, who really want this kind of content and aren't able to access it easily. And also, we really embrace a challenge and so, we also we love Hong Kong.

Ecozine is created by two people who chosen Hong Kong as their home. We weren't born here, we moved here. We chose to stay here because we love this place.

BRINGING GREEN MAINSTREAM

It's easier to start by sharing what we didn't want Ecozine to be. We didn't want Ecozine to be a magazine for the deep greens, for environmentalist, for people who already, like me, love hugging trees. We wanted it to be a lifestyle magazine for the general public. The idea of Ecozine is to create a sleek, sexy, appealing, even aspirational package for sustainable living. So you know, we put celebrities in our covers. We talk about food, family, travel, cars, lifestyle, you know? We just slip in the sustainability angle, it's trough a green lens.

But it's not a magazine that's pitched for people who consider themselves environmentalist. It's actually designed to bring green mainstream, is one of our taglines. To brig it to the masses. To show that sustainable living can be aspirational and not just something that you have to give up some part of your life or attend protests or wear Birkenstocks or live in the forest. You can live more sustainably and have a terrific life. That was what we wanted to bring because Hong Kong is very much about consumptions. What can I buy next? Where can I go next? What can I see next? Whose coming to town...what celebrity? So we want to bring sustainability into that lifestyle aspect that Hong Kong embraces.

What we find actually is that there isn't a consistent element between every story that needs to be maintained. There needs to be a thread, of which in our case is our voice. Our voice we maintain sort of light-hearted, layperson, friendly, slightly tongue-in-cheek lifestyle a voice. So we always try not to be too corporate, to use too much jargon, be too green, assume that the readers know everything there is to know about a certain topic. So that thread is our voice. But the subject matter and the way that we treat each topic varies widely. Because we have everything form you know, great advice from CSR professionals in really successful companies to taking great strides. To you know, top 5 veggie cafes to go to this weekend. So it really varies. That way we're able to engage a wider audience because some people like the sort of....the top 5s, and the way's to and the how to's, and some people really like the meatier stuff. So we do offer a variety.

BECOMING AN ENTREPRENEUR

For me, one of the biggest challenges of becoming an entrepreneur was that I, I didn't feel like I had an entrepreneurial spirit. Like I, I'm risk-averse. I'd rather just have stability, a steady income, I work hard, I take home my paycheck. At least that's how I thought I was. So for me, just embracing the idea of being an entrepreneur was a big challenge to cover come. I think I have. It excites me now. But there's still you know...I'm a natural worrier and so you know, that from time to time comes up for me.

In practical terms, just learning how to do this business. It wasn't like...I know I have expertise in something, I'll start a business in it. It was, I'm passionate about something and I've zero expertise in it, I'll start a business. So, learning about pagination and selecting paper and printing and the whole production cycle of a magazine and what kind of roles need to be filled, HR. I'm not an expert of running a business either. So not just a publication, but any type of business, you know? Steep seat learning curve, but exciting because I love learning so that was part of the appeal.

IT NEVER STOPS GETTING SCARY

It's funny, because I was asked to give a talk a couple months ago on risk at an event called Creative Mornings. I was like, risk...I'm not really sure I'm qualified to talk about that because I'm risk-adverse. Then they were like, but you're an entrepreneur right? So, okay, that's like oh yeah! I should probably...I could come up with a couple of things.

It never stops getting scary for me. Like it's always my hear plummets or my stomach gets tense, you know, when there something for example hiring people, you know? When it's just you and your business partner and your own late nights and your own you know, tears and bloodshed and sometimes laughter at stake, that's one thing. When it's other peoples livelihoods at stake, it just feels like...it's just such a huge responsibility for new entrepreneur and the there's lots of us out there. Who've just been a one man or two man band for a while who suddenly take on staff . That was one of them, you know? It was and still is as we're still growing and continue planning to grow....plan to continue growing our team, that was and still is you know, a terrifying thing in some ways. But, you can't grow a successful business without hiring people. So the impetus, you know, is obvious. Like it's do it or fail. Or work yourself to the bone and burn out. So you, know.

Oh my God. We have asked for so much advice over this journey and will continue to because we fully acknowledge that we don't know crap about some of the things or didn't know that we're doing. So, for instance, when we decided we wanted to start a magazine. We reached out to a magazine publishers that we knew. Models that we knew that met modeled for magazines. People that we knew who wrote for magazines. Luckily, we have a really strong network and some incredible friends. And even you know, people who in some terms could end up being competitors, just giving just the most generous support and advice along the way.

I'm such a proponent of just ask. Ask for help. There's nothing to lose. I don't think I've ever been told no. I've been given weak advice or advice I didn't take. Lisa and I, as business partners you know, from time to time we're like...did that make sense to you? No, okay that's fine, you know. But ask. Why not? I totally am all for hearing other people to have other people have to think. Especially people who know more than I do about a topic. Oh gosh yea.

GETTING GOOD ADVICE

So we've...the best advice we've been given, I think, are from two pools. Again, we've asked everyone we know, you know various points along the journey. But people who are already in the business we're in. So in our case, publishers, editors, writers, people in the magazine business and then investors. Whether or not we're seeking investment, investors know what companies need to have ready, need to look at, need to have in their business plan for success because that's what investors look for.

So, people I have in my personal network, who are investors, angel investors or fund managers or whatever, tend to have terrific business advice for, for startups and entrepreneurs because they're looking for other startups and entrepreneurs and they know what to look for in a successful, or in a successful business model.

PERSONAL RISK AND BUSINESS DECISIONS

So when you ask what my worst fear is, I don't tend to give a lot of time of day to thinking about my worst fears because it's really defeating. But if I were to give it a second, I'd probably say my fear is I'm on a persona l note, planning to you know I just got married last year. Planning to start a family and that needs to be a stable situation and the entrepreneurial world is always one with you know, instability and risk.

So, I guess my worst fear would be not being able to provide for my family because of a choice that I personally made or one of my staff not being able to provide for their family because of a choice I made with the business. I hope to god that never happens. You know, that's a new fear for me. So I wasn't driven by it before. Before my own personal life you know? Before I got married and decided I want to start a family, the only thing at risk,really was me. My time, my energy, my, my...maybe chance of dying younger. But there was no sort of other things at stake.

So as your, I realize now that as your life evolves and your priorities change, that can cause, that can be an impetus and a catalyst for making smarter decisions about your business. That's where I'm at right now actually. Is knowing that I have something more at stake causing me to be...wanting to be wiser about how I approach the business.

So, practically I don't think comes into it because we always have a practical hat on. You know, we always make sure that bills can get paid. And because you know the priorities that I mentioned are my future family, for instance, the main mission of the magazine is still the most important thing to me. Because I'm now talking about future generations and the planet we leave them. So for me, that aspect of the business is absolutely vital for my job satisfaction.

ALIGNING INTERESTS

Our advertisers for the most part are not just , are not bad companies doing a couple good things, but good companies. I mean we're...and there's more and more of them. Like I said we're very fortunate working with companies that are, that I genuinely...that I buy from, that I admire. I mean, those are the first people I reach out to ever issue. I put my sales pipeline together to reach out to advertisers and the people top of that list are people, are companies that I genuinely respect and admire.

It turns out that the companies that I genuinely respect and admire happen to be the company often times that want to reach the audience that we have. So, we haven't had to really give up anything in terms of our morals and ethics and mission. We've been able to meet that, that requirement. So, far anyway and I can't imagine this changing, our advertiser pool matches the, you know, aligns with what we want to create for the planet.

TELLING THE RIGHT STORY

Where the challenge lies, is that companies we think are doing good things, but that have been burned by accusations of green washing or that you know 100% of their business isn't sustainable. Like maybe they're...maybe they're saving millions of liters of water, but they still haven't figured out their dyeing process exactly yet. Or, they're a luggage company that makes products for life for the lifetime guarantee, which is think is very sustainable instead of like fast fashion. But, they don't market themselves as eco luggage, they market themselves as luxury luggage so they don't see the fit.

So that's one of the challenges that we see, is you know, convincing these companies. Or even like, let's say a fast-fashion company like H&M that is taking huge strides to try and be a sustainable business. When you're a business that big, it is challenging to do and they've been burned by green groups telling them that they're doing it wrong and they have done things wrong. But they're really making efforts in this journey. So at what point along the way can they say, yes we're doing good things and feel comfortable about it, you know? And even that applies even more so for the companies who've never tried to say anything about doing anything green, but that we perceive as a business that we perceive are doing something right. So sometimes it's about convincing the advertisers that they deserve to be in your magazine.

So, we're lucky that we have quite a bit of flexibility in our content. I mean luckily because we....we're lucky that we have flexibility in our content because we can then, you know. Some of our content is, its consumer facing in the sense that it's not even about the story of the companies, it's just about what you can do as a consumer to be more sustainable in terms of you know, seeking products with less packaging or saying no to straws or not even you know recommending certain businesses to work with, just lifestyle options.

Then when it comes to telling the states the sustainability story of a given company or organization, every company's story is so different I don't think there's any formula you can use. Some of them are you know really making great strides in work life balance for their employees. Others are just doing incredible things to the environment or the production or this you know the supply chain. Others are making great social strides providing clean water, looking at water waste. There's so many different ways a company can approach the sustainability that there's an equal number of ways that we can tell the sustainability story for them. So it you know it really is so case-by-case.

One of the things that we...this has been a part of our evolution over the development of our publication, is the definition of sustainability that we adhere to. Because it is such, I mean just every throws the word around now right? It's the new eco or green, it's sustainability. For us, it's about, and this is sometimes hard to convey because the name of our magazine is Ecozine, but it's not just about ecology and environment for us. It's about overall sustainability.

So personal sustainability, wellness is a big part of what we talk about. Social sustainability, you know. People doing good for people, looking after themselves and each other. Social issues and of course economic sustainability too. So, that you know, conveying to people that we're not just about trees and animals, but about actually the wider, broader definition of just being a more responsible creature on this planet, towards ourselves, others and the planet itself is something that we often have to bring up in conversation.

STAYING INSPIRED

Yeah, it's pretty easy to say what in spires me actually. I'm just, I love getting out in nature. I mean maybe it's cheesy, like yes, nature inspires me. Nature inspires everybody, but after a long week or three weeks in a row without a break, let's say a work...one hour in the forest, one hike, one afternoon at the beach is just enough to revive me incredibly. So and that's exactly what we're working to protect you know? In a broader sense, so I really need to get in nature on a regular basis or I start to feel defeated by just the vanity of urban life.

In terms of the business itself, the other thing that's really inspiring is when we get emails from people saying you know. I just discovered this product or I sign this petition or I had no idea that my X action had Y impact. I will never do that again. Even when we get emails from people asking for advice, you know. Where can I get, where can I recycle this? Where can I buy vintage clothes? Sometimes I like, go buy the magazine!! But then you know I feel it's really gratifying that people are confident that there's a resource. That somebody will answer them. That they don't have to wonder. So that's also inspiring that people look to us as some place with answers for that kind of question. So when we get individual human responses from people, it's just incredibly gratifying and it gives us that drive to continue.


For more interviews from the "Entrepreneurs for Good" series, check out the playlist here.

Stay tuned for more clips and full interviews in the coming weeks.


Brian Tam

Overcoming Fear and Excuses | Brian Tam, Let's Make Great!

In this episode of Entrepreneurs For Good, I speak with my good friend, and co-host of Behind the Grind, Brian Tam, about the fear that holds many entrepreneurs back.

His insights on how to get ideas off the dashboard, the importance of small wins, and in learning quickly through rapid failures, are all spot on.

 


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About the Entrepreneurs For Good Series

Through this series, we speak with Asia based entrepreneurs whose mission it is to bring solutions to the environmental, social, and economic challenges that are faced within the region to learn more about their vision, the opportunities they see, and challenges that they have had to overcome.

It is a series that we hope will not only engage and inspire you, but catalyze you and your organziations into action.

To identify a challenge that is tangible, and build a business model (profit or non) that brings a solution to the market.


About Brian Tam

Brian is a Creativity Catalyst and co-founder of an innovation consultancy, Let’s Make GREAT!

Born in America and having graduated from the University of Maryland, Brian saw China’s dynamic growth and decided to make a leap back to the mainland in 2007 when he came to Shanghai to create more growth and innovation in China.

Follow Brian
Website: http://www.letsmakegreat.com/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/brian.tam.56211
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamonline/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/letsmakegreat/


About Rich

Driven by the belief that change begins with a single step, Richard Brubaker has spent the last 15 years in Asia working to engage, inspire, and equip those around him to take their first step. Acting as a catalyst to driving sustainability, Brubaker works with government, corporate, academic and non-profit stakeholders to bring together knowledge, teams, and tools that develop and execute their business case for sustainability.

Follow Rich
Website: http://www.richbrubaker.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rich.brubaker
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richbrubaker
Snapchat: http://snapchat.com/add/richbrubaker
Instagram: https://instagram.com/richbrubaker
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/richbrubaker

Contact Rich
[email protected]


Full Interview Transcript

Brian: I am Brian Tam, I am the founder and CEO of Let’s Make Great!. We are a creative consultancy focusing on the next hundred years of innovation in China. So basically, what that means is that we do everything and anything to help people become more creative in China.

We were doing some Google research, just looking at different words that are popping up. And if you search "creativity in China", it’s very very low. All the new top 10 results are all negative results. “It’s not going to happen." "Education is not going to allow creativity to happen." But then interestingly, what’s changed is that if you search "innovation in China", the results are going up.

So it’s all positive news about how China is becoming more innovative, Chinese companies are becoming more innovative. So there is a change happening. It’s in wordplay, but I think it’s a real change.

China’s ecosystem for innovation

Brian: It is changing a lot. I started about three to four years ago now. And since I started, I can see that larger scale organizations are now starting to reach out to start-ups and build up connections and collaborations. So BMW now has an incubator. OMD is working with China Accelerator of course. Unilever and another New Zealand milk company, Fonterra, is also working with internal entrepreneurship and building up that innovation game that way.

So I think it’s happening, it’s starting to change. Three to four years ago, when I started, I was like “Entrepreneurship! This is the way to the future! This is going to make everything/the world a better place. You build a company inside a bigger company, how great is that? You get all the joined freedom of your own business and also you get the power and distribution of a large company.”

And I thought that was gonna be it. But companies don’t like that a lot of times. They are like, wait, you want them to be the boss? Then what is my job gonna be? So there’s a lot of people pushing back on that. But there’s also a lot of people making it happen ‘cause they do see it as a way for it. So those are the front runners and there is hope!

Do foreigners understand China?

Brian: I think there’s a lot of people who don’t get it. They are not really doing the homework of talking to the people who are going to be using it or getting in touch with their ideas. So that needs to change.

Rich: Do you think they really think that they know it better than the Chinese?

Brian: There’s a certain arrogance. Everybody has arrogance, so that’s always gonna be the case. "We are from the West, and we know better. This is what we should be doing." But is that always true? No. I mean, somewhere in the middle through the process, you figure out, “Okay, I do need to change.”

Hopefully, people are figuring out that they do need the change, because at the end, money shows how much impact you are really making or how much traction you’re getting. So I think there needs to be a significant/true metric. So a lot of entrepreneurs — actually let’s not call them entrepreneurs yet. They are not entrepreneurs yet, I can’t even say that.

They are just guys with ideas or people with ideas, and that’s nice and good. And usually, those ideas are about making impact and helping people to something better. But how realistic and driven are they? A lot of these people I work with are entrepreneurs, creatives, designers, architects, consultants — all knowledge-based people. They are not really thinking about, “How do I make this happen?”

They are thinking about thinking about thinking about making it happen.

Brian: They are several ways away from that. And it’s good, we need that. We need thinking. It’s important. But where’s the rubber meet the road? And that’s where I’m trying to push these people to get to: interacting with the Chinese market. Making sure that their idea really works for whoever they are targeting. That’s always an interesting thing to get people to move towards, because they are afraid. They don’t know.

Because if you actually — if you start meeting the road and you get resistance, then everything changes. You’re not sure if can really do it. You’re not sure. You hit reality, and reality is hard, and it sucks, and it hurts. So people are gonna get scared of that. It’s getting pushback. In idea land, in the dream world, anything is possible.

And that is fun, energetic, sexy, and alluring for a lot of these creative leaders to think about their ideas over and over again. But it doesn’t go anywhere. I think that’s one of the biggest things that needs to change for a lot of people. I don’t care if you’re a teacher, go make it real. I don’t care if you’re an artist, actually do something with it. Everyone got ideas, and it’s not about ideas, it’s about execution. But it is fear that’s preventing them.

No excuses

Brian: It’s interesting — I couldn’t say "on the Chinese side", because I’m not working with them — but just looking at the things that are coming out, I can see that they are very much based on other ideas. But they are mixing and matching, so it’s more plug-and-play and collecting different ideas together. And I think that’s a type of innovation as well. With the foreign entrepreneurs, maybe they are trying to do something different.

They are a little more disruptive. It’s just two different strategies. I don’t think either one is right or wrong, it’s just two different strategies. Yeah, so there’s a lot of entrepreneurs here. The community here has been developing, and that’s kind of cool. There’s a clear divide, though, between the Chinese entrepreneurs and the foreign entrepreneurs.

I mainly work with the foreign ones and the foreign creatives, and so they are pushing the line — but their impact is somewhat limited, as we talked about earlier. They are always looking for a Chinese partner, and they are always looking for the way to get their products into the Chinese market — a little bit more localized, right?

Or, they wait and make those excuses that say, “I can’t do that because I don’t have that partner. I can’t do that because I don’t speak Chinese. I can’t do that because…” I think those are excuses, and I really try to get these people to keep pushing on their own side to do what they can and what’s within their control. So that’s always been an interesting mind shift for a lot of these people, because we think we need help rather than we need to create momentum to attract help. And I think that’s a complete mental shift that a lot of people need to get towards.

Challenges of entrepreneurship

Brian: They are afraid of failure, is the biggest thing. They build up these fantasies in their head and they've got these big dreams. I mean, I got them, too. My big dream is a hundred years of innovation in China. That’s pretty big. Let’s think about that. One hundred years. China. Innovation.

This is like the three biggest ideas in the world right now. It’s scary. It’s unrealizable almost. But it’s not supposed to be realizable right now. It is supposed to be realizable in that time. So I try to separate people’s ideas and thinking into short-term and long-term.

And short-term, you need to have that action but be guided by that long-term vision. So that’s something I’m trying to separate for people, so that they do start taking action — because the fear of failure is this kind of ambiguous fear. You don’t know where it’s coming from. You don’t know what might cause that failure, and so it could come from anywhere. Here, there are different factors/drivers at play. The government have their rules, and we’re here playing by their rules. That’s the name of the game.

Dealing with fear

Brian: How do you deal with fear? It is everything. I say fuck fear, first of all, because it’s always going to be there. I’ve been doing this three to four years, and I’m still afraid. It’s just a part of it. If you are afraid that means you’re doing something new, which means you’re on the right path.

If you’re not afraid, then what are you doing? You’re so comfortable that you don’t have to think about. You are not putting yourself out there. Then what value are you adding to society, to your team, to your company and to the people around you? So you need to be doing something a little bit scary at least so that you can start to realize it.

So I say, first of all, fuck fear — it’s there, deal with it. Second of all, start small and get that feedback early so that you know if you’re on the right track or not. If you have those small wins, they build up to a big win at the end. So that’s a super critical step.

What is a small win?

Brian: Small wins are even just people smiling as you talk about the idea, and people are smiling and nodding, and they go, “Okay, I kind of get that." A small win is even, they give me feedback that I can use to improve it [the idea], so maybe sometimes a small win is everything. You just try to switch your mind into looking for the small win rather than looking for the failure or the reason that you shouldn’t do it.

And I think a lot of people who are very smart — these educators, consultants , designers — are very smart and creative people. But because they are so critical, they start looking for all the reasons they shouldn’t be doing it, all the “NOs” — and that adds up, so you don’t do anything. There’s no action then.

You just stop. You are paralyzed by fear. So I’m saying, look for that small win no matter what it is. There’s always a small win. You gotta look for it. And as long as you take action, you got a small win. So that small win and taking that small step is the key.

Is social entrepreneurship different?

Brian: So for me, I don’t give a shit about it. It’s not for me to label. I don’t care about labels. You can call it whatever you want — as long as you’re doing good, adding value, making the world a better place, I don’t care what you call that. But make sure that happens. If you are an entrepreneur, a businessman, a politician, or even a homeless person, make the world a better place. That’s it.

Why else are you alive? Why is your heart beating? Why are you breathing air and consuming things if you are not giving back in some way? My girlfriend is really amazing, because she’ll give to all the homeless people. I’m like “you can’t do this”.

But if they are playing music, she’ll take out the 10 RMB or the 20 RMB note. She’ll give them a little bit more. I think it’s because they are adding value. They are creating this atmosphere of positivity and enjoyment, right? Just like that. There’s a positive atmosphere that we can all live and love by. It’s amazing.

Ideas do not equate to action.

Brian: So everyone is different. I can’t give you an answer for how to start or where to start, but just start! That’s the wrong question to be asking — just starting, right? So, if you have one tool, go with that tool right now. If you have a million tools, maybe it’s time to start using some of them. All these ideas are all really nice, but the ideas are pointless until you start to realize them. And that’s what an idea is for, right? It’s for action, to make it come true.

I had that problem. I was a marketing guy doing project management. Then I was an English teacher. Then I was another marketing guy in another leadership development company. This was just ideas about ideas about ideas. And it drove me crazy. I wasn’t satisfied. And I thought, "Why not?" Because they were just in my head and weren’t in reality, and they weren’t a part of my reality. So I went out, and I quit my job, and I started Let's Make Great!.

And I decided that this would be my vision: By reflecting on my past, I looked at the "why's" of my past, and I saw that these "why's", these motivations, were all leading toward something that I didn’t even realize until I reflected. So I was lucky to have built up six to eight years of working experience before I started reflecting.

I know when you are a little bit younger, you don’t have enough experience to know "why" yet. You just haven't connected enough dots — some people say that, but I don’t think it’s true either. I think if I reflected earlier, I probably would have seen it earlier, but nobody was pushing me to think about it. So that’s on me, it’s just circumstance.

Self-assessment

Brian: Are you taking action? The first assessment. Are you taking action?

Research, and preparing, and planning is not "action" in my definition. Getting feedback, talking to people and building something, that’s action. I’m gonna call you out (points to Rich). I see you are stopping and starting, but have you actually put them altogether yet in video? I tried to shoot a video before, and I stop and start, but I couldn’t bring them altogether because there are these weird cut points.

That drove me crazy. So I was like “Are you taking action? Are you really following through with that?” All right, thank God for you (to Rich's assistant).

China and entrepreneurship

Brian: I think two things about this question. First is that entrepreneurship is the modern-day spiritual journey.

Because what is that? In entrepreneurship you find out who you are, what you are about. What you are trying to do, and what value you have to society? If those aren’t spiritual questions, I don’t know what is. It doesn’t matter. It just happens to be that if you do follow entrepreneurship, you’ll figure out these things.

And in China, it’s nice, coming from the West at least, because you end up in this place where all of the rules are different slightly or majorly — and you just go “why?” And by having that huge impact on your expectations and beliefs that not everybody is crossing the road the same way, not everybody is dressed the same way, not everybody is talking the same way, not everybody is treating me the same way.

All those expectations that flipped you around — that flipped you mentally around — is very challenging, frustrating, and difficult. But that creates a better environment to think creatively and differently about doing something. So, China is great because of that — for now, at this time and place, there’s no better place in the world.

Advice to aspiring entrepreneurs

The 20-year old fresh arrival in Shanghai. I think there’s so many opportunities to go explore. A lot of times, we fall into these patterns. We want to be comfortable so we find people who look like us, talk like us, think like us — and that’s good to a certain extent, but where are you expanding yourself? Where are you pushing yourself? Again, feeling uncomfortable, feeling afraid, that is a good thing. So use that as your barometer for right or wrong.

How much does it scare you?

One of the biggest question is “What am I supposed to do?” I’m like, “What are you most afraid of?” and that’s the answer. That’s what they should be doing, because they already know, but everything is an excuse.

“I can’t do this. I shouldn’t do this. My mom, my dad, my sister, and my friends don’t get it. The market says I shouldn’t do it. The advisor, Brian, says you shouldn’t do it."

Fuck that. I’m wrong, you’re wrong, everybody is wrong. You got to figure out your own way. And so if people are telling you you’re wrong, listen of course, and make sure you get that — but move forward too. But don’t let it paralyze you. A lot of people let it paralyze them. It is really annoying and scary.

And when those people become 41, and they haven’t gone their own path, they become different people. They become shells of their previous self, where they aren’t really pushing the boundaries as much. They forget that they should, they forget how to — they forget that it’s natural, and everything becomes an excuse on why it won’t work, why they shouldn’t do it, why they it’s not their responsibility, and all this sort of stuff. So it is a strong contrast between these two types of people.

Advice to our interns

Intern: I’m thinking about all the ideas that I have, how do you pick one?

Brian: So what have you done?

Intern: So far, I have interned with Collective Responsibility and I’m trying to find my basis.

Brian: Good start. Big win.

Intern: My original idea is… but now my idea is…

Brian: Stop... stop... stop… I like all these ideas here, but what have you actually been doing to work towards it? I think the thing about taking action, small steps, and those small wins is that through those small wins, you’ll find your way.

But if you are just thinking about it, nothing happens. Like you started with “I’m thinking about…” or “I’m preparing to...” that’s like several layers away. That’s what I was talking about the “thinking about thinking about thinking…” We’re trying to get you to action right away in a small way, and that’s what needs to happen.

And through that action, whatever it is, it could just be these videos you can reflect that you don’t like interviewing idiots like this, "This just doesn’t help me in my career." Now you know that’s not what you want. Or, you find out that, "This is great, if I can do this times a million, whatever it is, in a city out of nowhere, I’ll be very happy." So you start learning from there. But it requires small steps, small actions.

Intern: So how do you pick just one?

Brian: You don’t pick, you just do.

Intern: Even if there’s all of these ideas, do you think I should take a direction and run with it and see where it develop?

Brian: I think a lot of times we are looking at different directions, and any direction is a good direction but until you know why. So why are you doing it? So list down all the 10 different directions that you might have and just do 10, please. Just start with 10. And then looks at all the "why's" behind it. So don’t look at what it is, but the "why" behind it, and look at which ones make the most sense. And probably from that "why's", you can even see that pattern in it — and then whichever one feels that most powerful to you, go with that and just do that and start.

Intern: I’m a very indecisive person. How does that play into finding an action and just going with it?

Brian: Indecision comes from those people who aren’t tapped into their emotions. I don’t know you, but typically that’s what happens. People are too logical, too smart, and they’re analyzing, and they are not feeling. So I’m going to ask you to feel the right answer — that’s why I asked you to look at the whys. And from the "why's", you feel that this one resonates with you, so you’re going to go with that. Of course, these are all ideas that you’re coming up with, so they should all resonate in some way — but we are talking about the ones that make you go, “Oh shit, I have to do this. This is it. Oh of course, why didn’t I think of that?"


For more interviews from the "Entrepreneurs for Good" series, check out the playlist here.

Stay tuned for more clips and full interviews in the coming weeks.


Steve Jiang

The Power of Story to Change Minds | Steven Jiang

In this episode of Entrepreneurs For Good, I speak with filmmaker Steven Jiang about his work to capture the lives of Chinese living with Tourette Syndrome

Steven Jiang, is the absolute embodiment of what it means to be an entrepreneur for Good, and he is not really an entrepreneur.

He has no business model for his work, and he is not trying to sell a product, but he is picking up the tools that he has to fix a problem that he sees and doing something about it.

More than many other interviews I have done to date, Steven's attitude, grit, and the way he attacked the challenge, is an amazing inspiration.

Be prepared to be inspired, and if you are, please remember to like, share, and comment.

 


How can you laugh at us? We are just like you. What you can do, we can do.
What you can achieve, we can achieve.
- Steven Jiang, Filmmaker


About the Entrepreneurs For Good Series

Through this series, we speak with Asia based entrepreneurs whose mission it is to bring solutions to the environmental, social, and economic challenges that are faced within the region to learn more about their vision, the opportunities they see, and challenges that they have had to overcome.

It is a series that we hope will not only engage and inspire you, but catalyze you and your organizations into action. To identify a challenge that is tangible, and build a business model (profit or non) that brings a solution to the market.


About Rich

Driven by the belief that change begins with a single step, Richard Brubaker has spent the last 15 years in Asia working to engage, inspire, and equip those around him to take their first step. Acting as a catalyst to driving sustainability, Brubaker works with government, corporate, academic and non-profit stakeholders to bring together knowledge, teams, and tools that develop and execute their business case for sustainability.

Follow Rich
Website: http://www.richbrubaker.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rich.brubaker
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richbrubaker
Instagram: https://instagram.com/richbrubaker
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/richbrubaker

Contact Rich
[email protected]


Full Interview Transcript

Hi, my name is Steven Jiang. I'm a videographer and cinematographer here in Shanghai. I've been living in Shanghai for 10 years. Beside my job I got a lifetime companion. It's called Tourette Syndrome. Last year I spent a year filming, editing my very first documentary serious. It's called the happiness of Tourette Syndrome.

TOURETTE'S SYNDROME

Tourette Syndrome, I'm not a doctor but basically based on my understanding it's a neurological problem that causes people to do involuntary movements which they call tics.

First these two types of tics. It's a motor tic and a fawning tick, which is basically called a vocal tic. It sometimes bothers people because we do it involuntarily where it is uncontrollable. We can control it in a certain amount of time, but after this control and where we'll get them released. So when we do the tic, actually this...some part of our muscle or whatever it feels sore or a little bit uncomfortable. That's why we use tic to release this un-comfortableness. So that's why we do the tic all the time.

IGNORANCE AND INSULTS

Yeah, I mean every day ... mean my Tourette Syndrome is not that severe. But, I first know sometimes every month I saw people with Tourette Syndrome. Also I face which, maybe it's called a so-so stigmatization and people have missed a misunderstanding about it. Because people are ignorant of Tourette Syndrome.

If you ask a hundreds of Chinese people, youngsters, you know educated, whatever, they know nothing. But they know ADHD, they know OCD, but they don't know Tourette's. So that's a problem.

For me the most insulting behavior, um the word is, they mimic me. They copy me. I wanted to makes noise and they were makes noise. Someone asked me did you hear you are like a frog Craig, or something? But, yeah I mean there were two reasons. Maybe, maybe it's my tic sounds really like a frog. So they just do you think well, what is a frog in here or maybe they know is it's my tic, but I don't' know what's going on. They just, they're just too fun. So I basically, this is something about, I know this case can be worse, like even people, the thing you bother them and they asked no reason. They think you're weirdo.

BE TOLLERANT OF THE IGNORANT

We are very sensitive about how people look at me sometimes. I mean, I don't think it's good because some if you've get over sensitive, and you will mess up all this friendly behavior.

Sometimes you just look at you. It's care. Either you too sensitive ,I think while they heck you look at me? So this is something that I told my friends with Tourette Syndrome, don't go extreme. Because again, it confuse us that, these ignorant people should be forgiven. They're ignorant. Why don't you just, just be tourists? They know nothing. Just don't fight with them. Yeah.

IT'S OK TO BE PHENOMENAL

Even if your kids had Tourette Syndrome, it's ok for them to be phenomenal. Even our kids have Tourette Syndrome. If we have good education, if we know the trust an old properly, the tics can be healed before or after adolescence. Then there's a fewer. Why don't you see tangle with this because they don't want to spend time to study the hardcore... I mean the essence of Tourette Syndrome. They still think it's AIDS. This is something really awful.

So that's the thing to be sad about. That's the thing I want to change you know? Even I'm a little individual. I mean my documentary is not a blockbuster. It's not a boom, a week and billions of hits. No. It needs time to empower. To let people, to elect people to ignite people's heart.

It's a film that you should watch with your friends, with a relative. So It's something....I'm not so hassled to wait for the outcome because I'm sure others not perfect, but I think it's possible the best one-man crew documentary I saw in China. I mean I'm confident about that.

A lot of people say, don't do it alone. I say ok, I only have 60,000 how can I have a crew? And if I bring a crew, this heroes they don't think they don't feel comfortable. Like the girl a mother would never quarry, fine with me. So there have to be one man crew. They have to but again those have two sides, coins have two sides. London crew has it's own disadvantage, but also it gives you the advantage. But that you are so close with them.

DEVELOPING SKILLS

I used to be a cartoonist. An illustrator and also a probeist...I mean taking photos with strobes and finally I found myself. I still love something...the motions.

Then that's why I became a videographer and I learned from the tutorials. Thanks for my knowledge about English because this tutorial is that, there's no in Chinese subtitle, but they usually force myself to use English software with Photoshop, Premier Adobe, whatever because you learned lingo and jargons with the software.

You don't have to learn, you don't go to freakin English first to study about it, you know? This software gave you all the professional terms. Also and I think this my lighting skills with taking photos with strobes, helps me with I think this strobe lighting tech excuse or the techniques, but similar very similar to the lighting skills in a film. Just two different lights.

My camera is simple. I only have two camera. One camera is Canon Cinema 100. It's a professional camera, but it doesn't have slow-motion functions. So Sad. But it's a professional camera and it's a light, portable. Because I'm a one-man crew, so I can't, I cant take huge camera. Also, the price for that camera is affordable.

Also a second camera is called backup camera. It is a Cannon 60D...just like the, you know the LR camera. I use it for cam laugh or some other angle with do the interview, whatever. So and a tripod, a monopod and also a slider.

That's why I say I travel with three cities...with three packages. This is not...I think it's almost nearly twenty kilos or something. It's so heavy, but again you know the power is sometimes I do, I did in the middle way I want to equate. You know it's.. I'm not a hero, you know? I'm an ordinary people. Sometimes why do I do I do this, nobody pay me You know like I think it's out of the love and a care of the Tourettesy. If everybody knows Tourettes like what American people did and Canada did, there's no need for me to make the documentary.

So Every time I think about is sad stories that there are companions of facing. Think about the ignorant people I mean, they need to be educated. I don't think in my film will change every Chinese People to think about, you know? And also now there are still some people insulting my film. They think it's a tragedy for Tourette kids. I don't care about it. So sometimes you have to be stopped in a good way.

I think everybody has a small universe inside your heart and this stubborn idea or stubbornness what figure out is a small universe. And you will possibly, you make you do some behavior that this behavior will exactly will influence people we'll ignite a society and maybe it would even change the world.

You can't say I'm a small person and I'm just individual I can't do nothing.

FINDING THE RIGHT COLOR

I choose heroes because I said there was all about 50 or 60 people like a candidate. I found that some of candidate their stories really sad. So again, I saying what kid of team what kid of color I wanna give my film. It's kind of warm. It's not like kind of dark and black because I found, not every...even most of the Trans people in mainland China are facing problems. But I don't want my film to show they're really kind of desperate kind of people.

Although I choose this person these four heroes, they have trauma, but they overcame their trauma. Or they can work with the trauma pretty well. So like the first episode is a guy from Taiwan. He's 37year old flower arranger artist, called a florist. His syndrome is the worst one. The most severe one. He was crazy. He was yelling out all the time. But he was the first Asian florist, who win the number one French, like a flower arranging competition.

The hardcore message from him is to be yourself. Do not let others people's opinion judge you. Everybody is different individual, even though you have Tourette Syndrome, just let it go. He never covered his syndrome. Sometimes I covered it sometimes in an appropriate location, whatever. But you see in a film where he was doing flower things. When he's teaching students. He releasing this all the time.

But this thing can be an advantage because interviews are some of his students and said well I like the tic of my teacher because the most of the flower teachers are really boring, monotonous. When he do oohh, it's funny because sometimes you tired and a tic makes us wake up. So he didn't notice, but his students find well this is a characteristic of my teacher. So, although some people say well maybe he say well the God or whatever it seems like a challenge for him, or unfair treatment, but it's good because he never take himself as a patient. Because the story we have specific term for the actors, heroes.

So also there is a British woman, I think her name is Jessica, something. Her name is Jessica. She have a website. It's called To Rescue.com. So I think this person who dare to stand out and behave...relieve their tic in front of my camera continuously for month, it's really encourages act, you know? I don't think every Tourette sufferer or Tourette friend, they have this, these guts to do so. For me, they are my hero. They are a true hero because people tend to cover their trauma. They don't want to relieve that's trauma. To let billions of Chinese people know I have Tourette Syndrome. I mean in America, maybe in England, the situation got better, but here in China, mainland China this is really courageous.

YOU HAVE TO FIND THE BEAUTY

There are two hopes for Tourette sufferers here in China. I hope that this film is a bit to give them strength and power to face the situation, even if incurable. There is no cure for it. That mean you are not sentenced to die. You're not into a life sentence.

So every coin has two sides. Tourette has this awful side of it, everybody knows, but also has this beauty. But you have to find out a beauty through whatever you can do. Don't get beaten by us. Because if you've gotten beaten by us, the true ego will be killed. So just be yourself. Tell the world I am Tourette's. I have Tourette Syndrome.

GIVE THEM HOPE

Sooner or later people will type of Tourette Syndrome on YouTube or whatever. Actually want I want to see is not see how sorrow we are is the real situation and justlike me years ago. I click Tourette Syndrome on YouTube. I don't want to see how American Tourette

people feel. Like I honestly can I get some strengths. Is there a cure? We are looking for a cure, not a medical cure, but a spiritual cure.

If I show this sad photos and there it will quench their fire. They have a little fire inside. They have a little universe inside. These negative images will destroy them. So I don't want to give them this kind of impression. So that's why I even used the poster I found a good illustrator. So she made a painting of this, this for heroes and just tell them this....I'll give them hope. Like the last episode that hero was...it was the only hero doesn't have Tourette Syndrome. Her kid has Tourette Syndrome.

So this 33 year old woman, she healed her kids not through medicine, through love. Through behavior training and also this mental training so she's Tourette Syndrome gone. And then people said, well she can stop because you try a lot of effort and your son is covered. You go, just do whatever you want. But she kept writing blog. She writes 8 years, hadn't read diary for...record every second every minute.

She's almost like a doctor, but she doesn't have any medical background. And then she become profession blogger writing a blog, almost 900 articles to write about Tourette Syndrome. Not only diagnosis of Tourette kids, but also or every aspect to care, the maternal relationship, everything. And this year she is going to release her book. She is a blogger.

So in this episode, I give the people the answer, but how Tourette Syndrome inform you. How you should face Tourette Syndrome and how women changed her life and career out of the love of her Tourette kids. In the end she said someone else ask her why don't you stop? No one pay you. She said I feel I have a kind of like an agreement with Tourette's, with little Tourette angels and my mission is to tell these parents of these little angels that your job is to take care of this special angel. Do not blame them. It's not their fault. It's your fault because the key to help your children with Tourette Syndrome is you. It's not a medicine.

EVERYBODY HAS TRAUMA

For the masses. The majority of the people in China, it's like I want to trigger out the empathy, not sympathy because Tourette's is not a handicap. Is like a body infection. Everybody has trauma. Everybody has "Tourette's" in some ways.

How can you laugh at us? We are just like you. What you can do, we can do. What you can achieve, we can achieve. Even we do better when Mozart, he had Tourette Syndrome. There are some American athletes, they have Tourette's. And you know there was a movie called The Front of the Class and Brad Coyne was the writer. Also the hero in that film, he was a teacher. It was the best teacher in that state.

We have Tourette heroes all around the world. So we are just like everybody. So just, and also for the ordinary people,
again for this film, Tourette's is just clothes. It's just a dress. Inside the bone is how people dealing with the trauma.

How you deal with the problem. Everybody has a problem. That's why some people after the premier, after they see my video launched online, this ordinary friends, they told me hey...I saw myself in some of the episode.

They say right. You have problem, but you don't have Tourette's.

That's why you give me the feedback. That's the thing along my documentary is..there are still some problems there. I'm not happy with this, it is not a perfect one, but I think it's ...it missed what document the documentary spirit need to make people think.

To make people reflect even to make people change. Yeah


For more interviews from the "Entrepreneurs for Good" series, check out the playlist here.

Stay tuned for more clips and full interviews in the coming weeks.


Christina Dean

Changing Consumer Mindsets and Persistence | Christina Dean, Redress

Through this episode of Entrepreneurs For Good, I speak with Christina Dean about the problem of waste in the fashion and textile industry, and the work she is doing at Redress to bring awareness and solutions to the forefront.


Quote


About the Entrepreneurs For Good Series

Through this series, we speak with Asia based entrepreneurs whose mission it is to bring solutions to the environmental, social, and economic challenges that are faced within the region to learn more about their vision, the opportunities they see, and challenges that they have had to overcome.

It is a series that we hope will not only engage and inspire you, but catalyze you and your organizations into action. To identify a challenge that is tangible, and build a business model (profit or non) that brings a solution to the market.


About Christina Dean

Christina is the heart and soul of Redress. Since she started Redress in 2007 as Founder and spokesperson, and has steered the organisation’s powerful course towards a more sustainable future with less waste in the fashion industry.

Voted one of the UK Vogue’s Top 30 Inspirational Women, Christina delivers the Redress message to the world through talks, seminars, thought-leadership pieces and documentaries.

The indefatigable ex-dentist and journalist consistently drives the organisation towards inspiring positive environmental change in the world’s second most polluting industry. To Christina, Redress is not just the future of fashion but the future way of living.

Follow Christina and Redress:
Website: https://www.redress.com.hk
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100006862236443
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-christina-dean-7694a652/
Instagram: http://www.instagram.com/getredressed/
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/RedressAsia
Twitter: https://twitter.com/Redress_Asia


About Rich

Driven by the belief that change begins with a single step, Richard Brubaker has spent the last 15 years in Asia working to engage, inspire, and equip those around him to take their first step. Acting as a catalyst to driving sustainability, Brubaker works with government, corporate, academic and non-profit stakeholders to bring together knowledge, teams, and tools that develop and execute their business case for sustainability.

Follow Rich
Website: http://www.richbrubaker.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rich.brubaker
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richbrubaker
Snapchat: http://snapchat.com/add/richbrubaker
Instagram: https://instagram.com/richbrubaker
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/richbrubaker

Contact Rich
[email protected]


Full Interview Transcript

I'm Christina, and I'm the founder of Redress. We are an NGO reducing pollution and waste in the fashion industry. Probably my ultimate mission is just to inspire people to kind of get active with being a part of a solution.

REDRESS

The original problem we were trying to address is the rampant pollution coming from the fashion textile industry and we're still trying to do that. But ultimately after 9-10 years of experience in this sector what we're really trying to do is question human's relationship with consumption and trying to awaken people's minds to better ways of consuming and using and disposing.

EVERYTHING IS A MESS

Well, honestly, the industry is facing way too many problems for me to be able to isolate it. Firstly, taking a whole look at the entire fashion and textile industry, it's the second biggest global polluter and so if you want to look at pollution, you're going to have to address water, chemicals, carbon, green house gases, the whole spectrum of pollution and its all coming out of the fashion and textile industry. Of course, if you wanted to isolate the absolute worst of the worst, I think you could possibly isolate water.

The textile industry causes about 20% of all industrial and water pollution and in China, the textile industry is probably the second biggest water polluter in China. You've got to think, ya know, see China has got a huge industry across multiple sectors. So, even if you look at China the amount of, if you look at China...if you look at the pollution coming from the textile industry in China, the textile industry is actually causing twice the amount of pollution for water than the coal industry. And China's coal industry is actually supplying around 50% of the world's coal. So, I mean that's, that's just looking at textile, sorry, that's just looking at water as being one major problem with the textile industry.

When you start looking at the... I mean cuz there's also chemicals. You know, you need 8,000 chemicals to turn the raw material into a fabric. Eight thousand different chemicals. One pair of jeans requires three kilos of chemicals. And when you just multiply that by the amount of clothes that are being produced out there, it's truly horrific.

CHANGING CONSUMER HABITS

Well, I think if consumers keep going with buying, buying and dumping, dumping, then we're not going to address the problems of the fashion industry. Which will mean, that the fashion industry will continue to speed up, it will produce more and more clothes and it will create a lot of pollution and waste long the supply chain. And we will be continually facing a huge amount of wastage going into the landfill. So what is that going to do? It's going to continue to damage the environment, polluting the planet and killing people.

WHAT'S THE SOLUTION?

I think, from talking to a lot of people in the industry, is that the biggest threat...if you could look the industry is facing almost every single challenge that you could possibly think of. But if you really wanted to nail it down to something, what the industry really needs is a reliable, sustainable, renewable, cheap source of new fibers. Because you know cotton is a mind filed of problems and recycle polyester is wonderful.

I mean we've got a whole spectrum of materials and fibers that you're feeding into the textile industry and the search is on for the miracle fiber that you can feed this monster with less of an impact and that is what fashion brands need. Because they know that most textile garment fashion businesses know that they can't source the way that they did before because there's competition for food, for land to grow food, versus fibers. You've' got under priced resources like water. You've got consumer awareness that has spiked in recent years an you've got a chancing consumer sentiment. So basically sourcing has to change.

REDUCING WASTE. IT'S OBVIOUS

The reason we focus on waste reduction is because it's so obviously an environmental benefit to reduce waste and its also an economic benefit for anyone wanting to improve their bottom line, reduce waste. I mean, come on it's obvious. So that's why we want to reduce waste because we think that we can demonstrate, impact that way. If you want to reduce waste and you want to go talk to a brand and you want to a supplier, the doors open. Because everyone loves reducing waste. So that's why do that. Why we are not trying to find the miracle new fiber, because honestly the solution will probably for that will come from technology and we are not, ya know, I can barely operate Facebook. So you know we are not going to be going down that route.

BUSINESS MODEL

We are an educational organization essentially a social enterprise driven by education. So, in order to do that, we have to make money. The ways we make money are, entrepreneurial at the very spirit, but completely varied according to where we're digging for cash. If we're looking in the supply chain, or if we're looking for cash from consumers and funding. So we don't have any one funding model that actually serves us because we're not actually serving a product or making a product. Instead we're basically incredibly creative about getting money out of people, companies and organizations and governments.

So another model that we're working on and it's a business model, although I'd like to be richer on it. The model is we take clothes from people who use them..the business model is that we get clothes donated to us and then we sell them. It's pretty easy, but we could collect say in a year, year on year is different, lets just say 20 tons in a year, 15-20 tons in a year, But we can probably only sell about 3% of that through our popup shops. so it's a goo funding mechanism. It doesn't really kind of touch the sides of the budget, but it does help a little bit. and Of course, it's not, when you run a social business or a social enterprise, it isn't about the money. Yes, you've got to grow, you've got to make money, but you also have to change people so you can't always value things by the dollar.

CONVERTING CONSUMERS IS DIFFICULT

It's not easy to convert a fashion consumer. It's really difficult because if you look at organic food, it's obvious right? People are selfish. They want the best for themselves, so if you eat organic, you're going to be healthier, hopefully.

But people, to be really a conscious fashion consumer, you have to be very altruistic and you have to be able to think beyond your wardrobe and your daily life. You need to be be able to think of the cotton farms, of the garment workers, of the people living their polluted rivers.

To do that, it requires an emotional kick up the you know what. And you can't do that in one second it takes a lot to really inform someone like that. Inform someone to be able to change, and you have to..the problem with fashion as well as that its so deeply emotive. You know, what we wear is so important and so to ask peole to really make big changes over the outer appearance of their clothing, is actually to ask quite a lot.

The way to convert people is to make them understand that 1, the fashion industry is so polluting. It's not just causing problems with the environment, dirty, dirty rivers, it is literally killing people. That's number 1 and of course, this huge amount of social issues that comes with our clothes.

If you can lodge those two things into people's minds and certainly nail it home by saying every time you buys something, you're actually part of that. Because you're buying that. You're paying for all that suffering and if that's what you want to do...well, no one actually wants to do that. That's the good thing and I do think that most people are great and they truly don't want to be a part of that. They just don't understand that its' that bad.

So the way to change them is that you've got to make them realize that they're part of that. It's changing people and we changed so many people because people who come to our pop-up shops are on the hunt for a deal. They are not kind of green, they don't have a halo shining as they walk through the door. They're looking for clothes. They want nice clothes. They become very inspired that you can actually get great second hand clothes. So we do convert people while they're in our stores.

CARROTS AND STICKS

Now I think, its a carrot and a stick. I think you have to paint the harsh reality of the truth. That is, you know, the stick. The carrot comes in the form of saying, what fundamentally is fashion? It is the most beautiful, creative, expression of who you are as a human spirit. If we can capture that positive, that positive thread of fashion and make it ethical, make it value the planet, then you can actually love dressing in a more sustainable, ethical way. In fact, when you become more in tune with the fashion industry and you dress more ethically, what you...I've discovered that you actually start to enjoy style so much more because it has meaning.

I would love to say that our message resonates with Millennials, because you know that is such a powerful group, but I actually think we are talking much more to the more sort of older group of 25-45ish more woman than men. We talking a lot, I think to people who are searching for something else in their life.

CHANGE THROUGH COLLABORATION

At the end of the day, we're just 10 people. We ya know, we have a huge mission. We are 10 people and we are up against one of the biggest industries in the world, which actually look at the fashion and textile industry, it's the second biggest economic trade. So, are we going to be able to dent that industry if we work alone? Of course not. You have to work with industry to change industry.

So one example of one brand that we have been helping is Shanghai Tang, obviously China's leading luxury brand. We partnered with them for a couple of years on one of our projects, which is the sustainable fashion design competition. Basically competition, we find a winner, the winner goes work with Shanghai Tang, designs a collection and the collection is made using up cycled fabric waste. It's all of the fabric inventory and excess that is lying around from previous collections from Shanghai Tang's business and with our designers who we've trained, we've targeted, we've found them, they create a collection for global retail. Now, why that is great? On the one hand, you're educating emerging designers, you're transforming the ethos amongst emerging designers, but then we flip over and we effect the business. So we are looking at transforming supply chains of some big fashion brands in order to put upcycle products into their store. Ultimately because we want consumers to buy more sustainable options.

Shanghai Tang's reason for getting involved with us is because I think number one, they are a very responsible company who actually like doing good through their business. But much more than that they see the opportunity of working with our designers, who are ya know, Central Saint Martins standard. Incredible designers as reinvigorating the brand with a much edgier collection, actually that's just in-store and also integrating sustainability into their collections. So a refresh invigoration is probably one of the unexpected benefits that we also give to these brands.

TIMING IS EVERYTHING

Timing's everything. Timing in connections is actually very important you know. We've, had a very big partnership with a Esprit that went on for four years, big global rollouts of very mass mainstream fashion collections. People chop and chains.

These big fashion companies...their CEO's change everyday it feels like. And you can't actually make a long...it took about 20 mins over lunch. Well I went out, see he's a chairman, not executive direction, chairman now. I went out with the chairman Rafa ___, he is a friend of a friend. Sat down for lunch and said do you want to partner with us on a sustainable fashion design competition. And he said yes before I really finished the sentence. And that's because you know what I find and I you know, we speak a lot of fashion brands is that I don't think fashion brands are like, you know the evil people in the world. It takes us all. It's about catching them at the right time, getting in there with the right people, and selling them the right message.

WORKING WITH INDUSTRY

The benefits for us or working with...so for example, Shanghai Tang is immense because through them, we're able to message that China's taking sustainability more importantly and that upcycling is a business solution and that is important.

Through working with a company like Esprit for a number of years, we're actually able to say look, Esprit, one of the biggest players out there in the more mainstream industry is looking at waste reduction in their supply chain. And that actually pushes a lot of the agenda across the industry and of course, reaching consumers as well.

EVOLVE, GO TO THE GAP

I actually think, I know this might sound really unstrategic, but the end game keeps moving. Ya know, we need to be going and doing the hardest work possible so there's no end to this. The fashion industry is always going to be disgusting. It is. I mean, you know who are we kidding. It's always going to be a massive, massive problems, and yes, we can try and do our best to make just some if it better, but I'll go to my grave and it will still be really bad.

So, the end game is to evolve with the deeds of the industry and that has already changed in the last ten years. Like ten years ago we started collecting clothes and selling clothes, trying to inspire people that second hand clothes are okay. Now everyone is doing. The market is crowded with entrepreneurs, startups, for profits. Everyone is collecting clothes. You barely luck to leave this office with your shoes on. Everyone wants your old clothes and everyone is flogging clothes. So there's not a gap in the market for us anymore, but that's fine we are still doing it. But we need to move to where it's harder.

One example of that is for, for example, we provide teaching materials to universities. Because universities around the world really realize that they really need to teach their design students sustainability, but most Unies are way too busy to even think about it. So we've created a teaching module so all they have to do is download it and teach it and I like to say any monkey could do it because...there's your pack, read it out, teach the students.

Now, why did we do that? Because we are addressing a gap in the market. The gap is there's a huge need to educate young designers. The universities don't quite know how to do it. We're there in the middle and that is what a successful social business does. It goes to where there is a gap. There is no point hanging around the gap if it's filled up.

CELEBRATING SUCCESS

It's very difficult and actually quite sole destroying if you're a social business or enterprise because you can have a success every day, but the challenge is still so big. So I'm very proud of a lot of our successes, and even yesterday I felt really happy about a couple of things. Which is quite rare. Because really, if you're pretty driven with your cause, the cause remains this monkey on your back and this monster. And so, yeah small successes along the way, but the challenges are still so big. There's no point in patting yourself the back that much really.

MOVING BEYOND THE FOUNDER

CD: Sustain...no our current challenges are actually strategic, man power, internal systems, efficiency, management and funding. Always fudging, funding is always there that's taken for granted.

RRB: So how do you overcome these challenges? Is it you against the world? Do you have a board that helps you?

CD: Yeah.

RRB: Or do you talk to other entrepreneurs? Like, is it wine?

CD: No, I think...so having...I started it almost 10 years ago and I've been winging it for all of this time, but now as we're growing into a big organization, we can't just winging it. And so about a couple of well, a year ago issues we set up a new board and we've got a much tighter team structure with a new executive director who is reporting to the board. So what we are trying to do is move beyond a founder into a proper set up of a business with an active board, which we do. We have that now.

The problem of course, with anything is that things take time. You can't just set up a board and expect it all to work the next day. You can't just employ an ED, an executive director, and expect that to just happen over night. And so we are in a deep transition stage of moving beyond the sort of passionate founder to a sort of top management board structure. It's not that difficult, it just takes time. You've got to keep working at it. You can't ever really expect it to just happen. It constantly needs attention.

Well, a few years ago, must have been six years ago I went to INSEAD in Singapore and I learned so many things. But the one thing I learned was that the founder can ultimately kill the growth of an NGO and that really stuck with me as my abiding lesson from that entire INSEAD course. It was on social entrepreneurship. So I'm very conscious of being a founder and enabling the team to take it on. Personally, I can't separate my life from Redress because I love it. But I think, I think I can that, I can walk away because I'm not really walking away, I'm just walking away to other opportunities.

IT NOT EASY, BUT IT'S WORTH DOING

CD: Yes, definitely..

RRB: What happened?

CD: Well, you know what, sometimes you can be working on a project slogging your guts out and it's so demanding plus I've got, ya know, three young children. So I work really, really hard and yeah...It's just soul destroying sometimes.

RRB: Why do you beat yourself up?

CD: I think you, I mean it's easy to beat yourself up because when you've been doing it for so long, it's your second nature. You're not going to give up. Anyway it depends on your character. I'm not someone who gives up anyway. Yes, it's not fun. Anyone who says its fun is definitely lying. It's true. It's hard work. Yeah.

PERSISTENCE AND UTTER DETERMINATION

I think another thing I've learned is just how long everything takes. Back in the early days, I was talking from a shaker when I was setting this organization up. You've got to take a 10 year view on it. I thought that's ridiculous. I'll be done with this with in a couple of years and 10 years on I've barely scratched the surface. I think a lot of people who are staring up don't realize A, that they're going to work themselves so hard for so long before you even see impact and even when you start to see impact, you haven't really scratched the surface. So, persistence and utter sheer determination. Otherwise, I don't think there is any point in starting.


For more interviews from the "Entrepreneurs for Good" series, check out the playlist here.

Stay tuned for more clips and full interviews in the coming weeks.


Scott Lawson

Impact Investment and Inspiring Entrepreneurs | Scott Lawson, SOW Asia

Through this episode of Entrepreneur for Good, I speak with SOW Asia's Scott Lawson,  about his experience as an investor looking for entrepreneurs, and organizations, whose mission, and potential to scale, are aligned with their investment thesis.

It is an interview that I feel offers a lot of insight, particularly for entrepreneurs who are looking to learn about the mindset of investors, but is equally interesting (AND VALUABLE) for investors who are just entering the impact investment space.


"Only do this if you cannot do anything else. If there is a burning issue or problem in your mind that keeps you awake at night that you have to address, then by all means do that. But understand that this is extremely challenging, risky, time consuming work and it can often be a lonely journey as well."

- Scott Lawson, SOW ASIA


About the Entrepreneurs For Good Series

Through this series, we speak with Asia based entrepreneurs whose mission it is to bring solutions to the environmental, social, and economic challenges that are faced within the region to learn more about their vision, the opportunities they see, and challenges that they have had to overcome.

It is a series that we hope will not only engage and inspire you, but catalyze you and your organizations into action. To identify a challenge that is tangible, and build a business model (profit or non) that brings a solution to the market.


About Scott Lawson

Scott Lawson is the former CEO of SOW Asia, a Hong Kong based, donor supported charitable organization working at the intersection of social enterprise and impact investing. SOW Asia invests in organizations and people intent on creating positive social or environmental impact.


About Rich

Driven by the belief that change begins with a single step, Richard Brubaker has spent the last 15 years in Asia working to engage, inspire, and equip those around him to take their first step. Acting as a catalyst to driving sustainability, Brubaker works with government, corporate, academic and non-profit stakeholders to bring together knowledge, teams, and tools that develop and execute their business case for sustainability.

Follow Rich
Website: http://www.richbrubaker.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rich.brubaker
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richbrubaker
Snapchat: http://snapchat.com/add/richbrubaker
Instagram: https://instagram.com/richbrubaker
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/richbrubaker

Contact Rich
[email protected]


Full Interview Transcript

I'm Scott Lawson. I'm the CEO of Sow Asia. I've lived in Hong Kong for 16 years. I first came to China in 1981 as a undergraduate student and I've been in love with the Chinese culture and people since then. I came to Hong Kong in 2000 to serve as the pastor of a church. In 2008, I moved over to join the South Asia team.

SOW ASIA

Sow Asia is a Hong Kong based charitable foundation investing in the individuals and organizations that are creating positive and scalable social impact.

Sow Asia was founded in 2009. The founder needed to make a decision whether to establish it as a fund or a foundation. We decided that the focus needed to be on impact, so we chose to establish it as a foundation. As an organization, our priority is impact. We are of course trying to do that through impact investing to create the sustainability and scalability that Asia is going to need to address the big challenges it faces.

INVESTMENT STRATEGY

Sow Asia was founded in the same year, I believe, that the term Impact Investment was coined (2008/2009). So we really were amongst the pioneers in this part of the world. When the term was coined, there was obviously a great deal of the excitement and anticipation around a concept that people were really struggling to put words and ideas to. We've been a part of that development process in this part of the world.

I spent my first two years really traversing China and Southeast Asia looking for investment opportunities. Honestly we struggled to find opportunities that we thought were investment ready. That began, that began a deeper conversation internally to the organization about our relevance and about the impact investment space as a whole. Off the back of that long internal conversation, we made the decision to engage the market at an earlier stage. Really looking at younger organizations that we thought had all things equaled, the potential to grow. But, we're going to need some capacity building support to make them attractive for investment.

Because the space is still nascent here in Hong Kong and in Asia, we have had to cast a wider net in terms of the opportunities we're looking at. We are interested in the environment sector, the education sector and the healthcare sector.

WHO THEY WORK WITH

Sow Asia is uniquely placed as an organization that seeks to both invest, but is also functioning actually as an intermediary helping to bring together supply and demand in a market place that doesn't really yet exist. So on the demand for capital side, we work closely with inspiring and aspiring entrepreneurs who have solutions, have organizations that are creating positive social impact. It's actually the most exciting part of my job and the greatest privilege for me to work closely with these entrepreneurs. Many of whom are young, but as we are seeing, we are seeing more and more mid career people coming into this space and really applying their experience, their abilities to engage the social impact space.

What we try to do is focus on organizations that have reached the proof of concept level. They have a couple of founders, they have a business model, even if we will change it with them. They have ideally some revenue as well.

EARLY LESSONS

Over the past three years, we have worked with closely with over 40 social enterprises. Again, across a number of sectors, the environment, education, healthcare, poverty alleviation. It's hard to generalize about the entrepreneurs. Some of them come from commercial background, some of them come from a more non-profit background. We have learned in the process that both non-profits and for profit organizations can be successful in achieving their mission and being able to scale their impact. So this has been a great learning for us in terms of how we understand and how we can engage them and help them to grow their ability to scale.

INSPIRATION

The Impact Investment space faces a number of challenges. I liken it to the old story about the five blind men and the elephant. We have conversations about impact investing and realize that although people are all using that term, we may actually very well be talking about different things.

So one thing that we have become much clearer on, is the need to not necessarily define that term, but to define what ones intentions are around that term. What is one seeking in terms of a return? Either financial or the impact of social or environmental.

There are a number problems across the globe that we run into again. On the one side, we face a continued lack of demand for Impact Investment capital. That to say we are not really seeing enough investable opportunities coming into the market place. At the same time, we are also seeing a lack of interest and attention and awareness on the supply of capital side. So whereas I see in Hong Kong, a number of individuals who raise their hand and say yes I'm interested in Impact Investing as an investor. In fact, they are really not doing that. The reasons are clear, but I think there is certainly a gap between supply and demand as they currently exist that needs to be bridged. It's one that we are trying to address at Sow Asia, but that I would say is our biggest challenge going forward.

Those who are interested in investing into Hong Kong projects, find that even the most interesting opportunities are limited in their scalability. Hong Kong is a big city, but relatively speaking a small market. So there are have not been a lot of opportunities for people who want to invest locally and scalable impact. The bigger problem, here in Hong Kong, but I think globally is that what the space really needs now to bridge that gap between supply and demand is what I would call high risk, low return capital. Which is something that any rational investor is not going to appreciate or understand. This is why we believe there is a need for what has been called flexible finance, capital that is more philanthropic in its nature that would be that early first loss funding that allows for these enterprises to grow and creates real impact investment opportunities going forward. We have to identify that capital for the missing middle.

IMPACT INVESTING IS DIFFERENT

Potential investors bring to the conversation a number of preconceived ideas about the impact investing space. Especially if the opportunities that they are looking at are self described as social enterprises. Often times social enterprises are understood to mean a lower return financially. So immediately they're considered with I would say, greater suspicion, greater skepticism, unless the investor has said that their intention is to invest in the impact. Most investors in Hong Kong and I think elsewhere are very much interested in the idea of receiving a certain level of financial return as well the impact. But those opportunities haven't come into the market yet.

LABEL & MODELS MATTER

Social enterprise is an umbrella term that can be used to describe a number of different organizations with a number of different purposes. If we're looking at an opportunity that does have the ability to compete and scale in the commercial market, then we would advise them not only to, not describe themselves as a social enterprise, but to build their business model accordingly. In some instances, where the revenue might include earned income, but may also include government subsidies, and rightly so because these are opportunities that require government support, then I think the social enterprise label is more appropriate, if you will.

One of the things we have built into our capacity building work is immediately identifying with the social entrepreneur, what their end game is and helping them to understand a strategy around that end game and to really leave as much as possible, their preconceived ideas about how this should be working just to sent those aside. So often times we find social entrepreneurs have a preference for earned income, which is not a bad thing per say. But again, it depends on what they are trying to achieve, the market which they are trying to operate, the stake holders or clients which they're trying to serve. For instance, a social enterprise that is addressing a challenge around poverty alleviation, we've become clear that most of the models don't work or don't work well. By that I mean they are not scalable.

In Hong Kong, many of the B-C social enterprises struggle to reach sustainability because they're competing against every other coffee shop in town, for example. So we're interested in working with organizations...really rethinking their business models from the inside out. Thinking about b2b models for example. B to G to C business to government to consumer or client. But it means being willing and able to look at everything again including the legal status for a profit, non profit, in light of the end game or the overall strategy objective of the social enterprise.

ADVICE TO ASPIRING ENTREPRENEURS

My advice to any potential social entrepreneur, first of all I would say only do this if you cannot do anything else. If there is a burning issue or problem in your mind that keeps you awake at night that you have to address, then by all means do that. But understand that this is extremely challenging, risky, time consuming work and it can often be a lonely journey as well.

Secondly, I would say that most of the social entrepreneurs we talk to, do have a great passion about their solution and because they have a great passion about their solution, they automatically assume that everyone else also understands the value of their solution. But in fact, you need to demonstrate that. You need to prove that and we will ask you, if you work with us to prove that to us. You make hypotheses about your value proposition, your customers, we want you to prove that to us. I think that is a growing process and a strengthening process for you to get real about where this product would actually be demanded and creates a real value in the market place.

HOW INVESTORS CAN IMPROVE

I would describe my journey with Impact Investing , I would liken it to repairing in the airplane as we fly in it has sort of exhilarating, but also slightly scary feeling at the same time.

When it comes to the Impact Investment community I'm not sure it really exists yet. We have a number of people who have expressed interest. They come to the Impact Investment space with a point of view, a certain mind set. I think we are still trying to understand one another. We're trying to figure out, for example. How we can communicate across different mindsets, across different boundaries. We are also trying to figure out how we can effectively measure social impact in a way that will be necessary if we are going to grow the space.

It's incumbent upon organizations like Sow Asia working with strategic partners, like JP Morgan for example , or the Hong Kong government, to be intentional about building the eco system that I think is going to be necessary to grow the impact investment space. We've done a pretty good job her in Hong Kong about providing support for social

enterprise, investment opportunities from seed stage straight on up. Sow Asia happens to serve the growth stage market. We need to continue the work with investors well.

At the end of the day, my sense where in Hong Kong is that there are a lot of people who are not willing to engage until they understand it and my counter argument is we are not going to understand it until we engage. We are going to need more people who are willing to jump into the space as both entrepreneurs and investors, make some mistake, learn in the process and build the space accordingly.

PAIN OF INACTION WILL DRIVE ACTION

Hong Kong, the city displayed behind me, is one of the most prosperous in the world, in this world. At the same time, nearly one in five Hong Kong residence live below the established poverty line. There are one in five adults in Hong Kong who are not getting enough food to eat every day or experience what we call meal gaps. There are a number of issues in Hong Kong related to poverty, specifically around housing, around healthcare, and around food. Basic services that any civilized city, such as Hong Kong, should be able to provide for its citizens. We need to address those issues.

The other obvious change in Hong Kong is the demographic bulge and the rapidly aging population in Hong Kong as we have seen in Japan and as we will see in China as well. There are currently inadequate facilities for aging, for the aging population and also its not just about healthcare facilities, it's about some of those things that we take for granted. The companionship, battling loneliness and depression. There are a number of places where innovative iterative solutions are really going to provide a huge difference in a place like Hong Kong.

There are a number of complex questions about how we can move the Impact Investment space forward. It may be that its really not going to move forward until the pain of not acting, of not doing because more acute. Whether we are talking about the environment, whether we're talking about the income gap in Hong Kong and China, the education gap, etc. Those problems are only going to increase. The need for Impact Investing is only going to increase as we realize that neither traditional charity or traditional public resources are going to be sufficient to address these issues.

In terms of the first mover, my sense at this point is that the government certainly has a role to play. We've seen private capital expressing an interest, but the first movers are likely to be those who are more philanthropically orientated who can provide that first lost capital. Also, the thought leadership that is required to begin to move this space forward by creating examples that work and really, I think, instilling a new kind of imagination into the minds of people about what is possible through the Impact Investment model.

WHERE IMPACT INVESTMENT IS WORKING

We already know that the Impact Investment model is performing well in particular sectors. The agriculture sector, for example, across less developed countries in Asia and Africa. For example. Its working in clean tech or green tech for opportunities that are perhaps more socially oriented. I think there's going to be a lot more activity and a lot more growth around solutions, innovations with regard to healthcare and education as the cost of education continue to spiral really beyond the means of most people in Hong Kong and that gap opens, I think, you're going to see a lot of innovation around those solutions as well.

The other obvious one for all of us in Hong Kong would be around the environment as well and this is a place where an enormous amount of work is to be done. We two years ago made an investment into a small recycling company in Hong Kong. Really the only company in Hong Kong that is recycling glass sand plastic, believe it or not, and this is a company that is experiencing some growth, but I think in the next year is gong to be well-positions to really grow and create some positive impact in an area of great need in Hong Kong.

STAYING INSPIRED

I've long believed that each of us has really one fundamental binary decision or choice and that choice is between hope or cynicism. And I think it's one that we need to, I need to make almost every day because there's obviously a lot of evidence to suggest that cynicism is well-placed. But I'm a father, I am someone who is attracted to big challenges of someone who fundamentally believes that although the impact investment space isn't working in an optimal fashion yet, it has to work. That it is indeed our only solution that bringing more private capital and investment performance into organizations, movements that are creating positive measurable social impact.

GOODBYE AND GOOD LUCK HONG KONG

I've been at Sow Asia for nearly eight years. I'm stepping down at the end of June to return to the US. I leave with very mixed motions. I'm obviously excited about returning home and being closer to family, but Hong Kong is a huge part of who I am and...I, looking back on my experience, I obviously would have liked to have done more. I would like to have seen more deals done. I now understand that like these extraordinary buildings behind me, there's a lot work that needs to go into building the foundation before the structure can actually come up. I understand that we've actually done a fairly good job at Sow Asia at building the foundation and that's not just us, but our desire, our willingness to work with a number of steak holders in Hong Kong to really develop what I think is a robust ecosystem to support the growth of the entire space.

We face some real challenges. We need more investable opportunities, which requires smart, young entrepreneurs coming into the space as opposed to going into investment banking or other opportunities. That's going to happen. I think they need to know as they come into the space that they're going to be properly supported, they need to do the heavy lifting themselves, but I think they need to know that Hong Kong is a place where if they work hard, if they are true to their mission, that they have a solid chance of actually growing their enterprises.

It's my conviction that great social entrepreneurs need the best support we can provide for them.

Hopefully Sow Asia will continue to do that.

I certainly hope that that is the intention of my successor and I wish him or her all the best.


For more interviews from the "Entrepreneurs for Good" series, check out the playlist here.

Stay tuned for more clips and full interviews in the coming weeks.


Amena Schlaikjer

Self Awareness and Delusional Entrepreneurs | Amena Schlaikjer, Wellness Works

Through this interview of Entrepreneur For Good, my close friend Amena Schlaikjer brings a bit of levity to the belief that our ideas (as social entrepreneurs) are "the ideas" that will solve the environmental and social challenges faced by our cities, communities, and countries.

She is someone who has some of the best ideas, and there are two that we cooked up early on that are now HUGE businesses... for other people. Yeah, we had the ideas, but as you will see in this interview, ideas can often delude individuals into thinking they are entrepreneurs.

When in fact they aren't. And that's ok.

It is a wide ranging interview that is really about personal growth, self-awareness, and creating personal processes and rituals.

I hope you enjoy the interview, and if you do, please remember to like, share, and comments!

"A master is someone who's established a process or a way of operating and its connected to some level of deeper meaning in their life and they want to put something out there in the world."

- Amena Lee Schlaikjer


HER JOURNEY IS ONE OF A BALANCING A CONSTANT FLOW OF IDEAS, SELF-AWARENESS, AND KNOWING THAT NOW IS NOT THE TIME TO BE AN ENTREPRENEUR


About the Entrepreneurs For Good Series

Through this series, we speak with Asia based entrepreneurs whose mission it is to bring solutions to the environmental, social, and economic challenges that are faced within the region to learn more about their vision, the opportunities they see, and challenges that they have had to overcome.

It is a series that we hope will not only engage and inspire you, but catalyze you and your organizations into action. To identify a challenge that is tangible, and build a business model (profit or non) that brings a solution to the market.


About Amena

Amena is a wellness innovator, health coach and facilitator of ideas that create change, and she is passionate about how people thrive and where health and creativity come into play in that process.

Amena grew up as a world traveler from my diplomatic childhood, enjoying the multitude of diverse perspectives life has to offer. Amena started my career by combining my Asian Studies from Columbia University and Marketing from F.I.T. to help entrepreneurs build new businesses in New York and eventually Shanghai - learning the ins and outs of attracting new markets and thinking outside the box for solutions.

Following a desire to facilitate ideas that inspire others towards healthier choices in a more sustainable world, Amena started her own socially-minded enterprise called The Wellness Works; where she co-create with brands using innovation methodology and find ways to support the community.

Follow Amena and Wellness Works:
Website: http://www.the-wellness-works.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amena-lee-schlaikjer-85b0412/


About Rich

Driven by the belief that change begins with a single step, Richard Brubaker has spent the last 15 years in Asia working to engage, inspire, and equip those around him to take their first step. Acting as a catalyst to driving sustainability, Brubaker works with government, corporate, academic and non-profit stakeholders to bring together knowledge, teams, and tools that develop and execute their business case for sustainability.

Follow Rich
Website: http://www.richbrubaker.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rich.brubaker
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richbrubaker
Snapchat: http://snapchat.com/add/richbrubaker
Instagram: https://instagram.com/richbrubaker
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/richbrubaker

Contact Rich
[email protected]


FULL INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT

My name is Amena Lee Schlaijker and I have a little initiative called the Wellness Works. My mission is to basically come up with creative ideas with other partners in order to empower people to take control of their well being.

WHY WELLNESS?

So it's been now, the era of connecting dots. I think you are only as good as the dots you can connect, otherwise your life is just complete chaos.

So I think since like college burnout and like trying to learn the tools early on and how to manage my own personal wellbeing, I realize that people are really lacking these tools. I had to got through like ya know 20 years of a career in the lifestyle industry, a lot cosmetics and fashion, and that was very much the thing, the what. I was attracted to the packaging, the marketing industry, how to get really funky cool products out there and then I realized it was extremely one dimensional.

As I got deeper, and in search of a process which I think a lot of us look for later on in our career, I came across innovation.

I was asking what makes people tick? Why do people want to buy things, hat look really cool and pretty? And why would they want to buy something that's, that's harmful to them and their health?

Then I think it was the fusion of those things where I wanted to just innovate things that were healthy for people.

WHY DID YOU WANT TO BE AN ENTREPRENEUR?

Since the age of 16, I surrounded myself with entrepreneurs, like you, and was very inspired by them.

I went to night school at one point so I could work all day and a full-time job, and I always picked entrepreneurs because I just found them to be fascinating risk takers who were really adaptable people. Something I understood as I had grown up really uprooted moving every 2 years in my life. So yeah, I was just attracted to these go-getters and people who are ahead of the curve a trying things in different countries, and so I just kind of followed them around like a puppy dog.

So I was around these entrepreneurs and I was like well I gotta be like them. I gotta be like them when I wasn't recognizing that there was a place for what I was doing unconsciously.

NOT AN ENTREPRENEUR. ENTREPRENEURIAL

So, I wanted to qualify something and maybe this is a bounce because I don't consider myself a pure entrepreneur.
I think there are grades of entrepreneurship, and while I think I'm very entrepreneurial, but I don't own a company, a team or throwing a, a produce or service necessarily out into the world.

I work with clients as in independent and someone who gathers ad hoc people on a project as I figure out what their problem is and then I become their best supporter of that problem and I want to solve it with them.

I have this awesome toolkit of how of how to be adaptive and how to come up with ideas that you didn't think you had and how to sense in areas that you forgot how to sense them so we can envision something really new for your company. I've gotten really realistic about that's my sweet spot, at least for now. And um, and I think that's an entrepreneurial.

IT'S OK TO BE #2 OR #3

Yeah, and I, ya know, I got comfortable with this when I went to a school of creative leadership called THNK (in Amsterdam). They have schools around the world that present themselves as a school of entrepreneurship, and they were punishing everybody to come up with their amazing world saving idea, and and it dawned on me like, actually, most entrepreneurs are delusional.

I think, I think when you can get really honest with yourself and understand what your scale and your scope is, that's when you can start seeing real shifts happen with yourself and not set yourself up for failure or create a stretch that's unrealistic only because it seems fashionable. … and you know very well as I do that we're in a phase of entrepreneurship being fashionable.

Everybody and their grandmother is trying to be an entrepreneur, and I think that's great. It's a skill set that everyone should have, but that doesn't mean that they have to be an entrepreneur. They can be in a corporation and be entrepreneurial, or they could be an innovator, startup catalyst of that kind or they could be someone who works for an entrepreneur and understand the culture of how to get things off the ground and add value.

REALIZING BEING #2 WAS OK.

I think it was, I think it was a maturation of self and that I was just accepting that, this is a really good place to be. I don't want to cut myself off from being an entrepreneur in the future.

That a may very well happen and I welcome it and embrace it, but I think I settled into like this is a horizon now that I need to pay attention to and be present to and be proud of and do really, really good work here. Instead of show up and do my consulting projects and all these amazing ideas in my computer you know?

There was a naivety about that and I know now that the way I came up with those ideas is what I had to offer.

MASTERS AND DABBLERS

So there's a big difference in working with somebody who is dabbling.

I don't know if they're inexperienced or if they came into a ton of money, and they're going to try something, or they're new to an industry and think its trendy and it’s going to be a hot opportunity, but a master is someone who's established a process or a way of operating and its connected to some level of deeper meaning in their life and they want to put something out there in the world.

There is so much clarity, in masters. They have a set of filters, a set of pillars and values that a dabbler couldn't express s they're just following whatever is hot, you know?

So I think there is a difference between like people who do a lot of stuff, like you and I. I think we are innovators, and I think we help other people also come up with ideas and be entrepreneurs.

We're entrepreneurial. You're much more of an entrepreneur than I am. But we get masterful at our process. You get so good at it, you can get in front of your class and teach it I a heartbeat. Right? Because it's the way you attack the world.

I think dabblers don't have that.

They just kind of drop whatever and move on to the next thing, and that distraction is the biggest inhibitor to success.

THE ART OF DABBLING

Yeah, ok, so I think there's a necessity in dabbling in order to achieve levels of mastery because people who don't experiment enough to land, to hone in on. Like this is the piece I want to start focusing on, and to understand if it gives (me) energy or does it zap (my) energy?

If they are honest about that, then they have kind of the cornerstone to which they can start building their mastery, right? Because you have to dabble in order to get there.

Then, I think once you get to this level of mastery, which I think you have arrived at, it is around the process. You're a master at like how do I get the startup pieces, the chess pieces in play so that I can step back from the board and approach another board with these exact same process.

So again, I think maybe master dabbler is a great way to describe that because you have honed that skill.

WHEN SHOULD YOU STOP DABBLING?

This is where the lessons of deep practice come into play. Where you can start calibrating and you're not like sort of pendulum swinging between different modes of operating, ideas, jobs, partners or whatever it might be.

So I learned this in the practice of iterating through the innovation process, which entrepreneurs do naturally because at some point you have to create enough constraints. While I spend 80% of my project setting up constraints in order to be creative, even though most people think that's blue sky creativity blueish and stuff.

For me your idea is only as good as your constraints you set up and the more you do that, the more you go ok, exactly what is the challenge question? What am I articulating? Where the values we're working by? What are the filters that I'm operating in? How am I scoping this? What are the high and lows of this project?

There are so many tools that I use to get like razor sharp, polishing down the challenge.

Then boom...something opens up to how you can create and then you have to decide how many times do I want to iterate this? Or how many ideas is enough? Because I could go forever.

Especially if you are with a creative being, you could just go non-stop. You just get better at making the call.

I think this comes into every field of any master of domain will do this.. in athletics, in entertainment, in politics, in business.

You get to a point where you know when to stop.

SUPPORT NETWORKS AND CONFIDENCE

If you look back on human history, we've had support systems that no longer exist in uprooted urban transient expat cities in particular.

That's really the bulk of your audience, but in any sort metropolitan city where you don't have elders anymore. We don't have channels of wisdom and knowledge that come to us in a very practical sense.

We're in highly competitive environments, so we don't have sober neutral advice from others. There is always something. There is always a lens that people are talking to you with.

We don't have religious people, gurus, priests, like this ilk of support that, that again give us kind of like the pillars of thinking even or kind of hone our value systems.

So without this some sort of, it's not like a, it's like an ethical support system and we've talked about sustainability, actually, frankly is just a like a new set of ethics, right? It's not this new market or new horizon, it's just the way should be operating. Uh, when you don't have those things instilled as a value set, I think people can feel really lost and I think all of us as entrepreneurs feel extremely lost at times.

I also think that's the reason why this whole coaching industry has taken off even though it has a lot of holes in it, but I think we are really lacking coaching, mentors, advisors, neutral opinions, hard constructive feedback as to why you are not doing things right.

AVOIDING (SURVIVING) BURNOUTS

So I am a long sufferer of burnout, depression in my early 20s and I think I had 3 bad burnouts in life where like, ya know at one point I didn't sleep for 10 days straight.

I mean people die from stuff like that.

It was intense and just incredible lows, and I think this work that I am doing is just trying to figure out what are the tools we can hone to pull ourselves out of that… or catch ourselves before we fall into it.

That whole process is just kind of a self-discovery process. It's just learning who you are and what makes you tick, and I just don't think a lot of people have the patience, the time carved out, the focus to go there.

So I really believe entrepreneurs need to have a dedicated practice of some kind. Somehow meditative or mindful, even though they don't have to do formal meditation. But it needs to be a checking back in so that you're able to calibrate before you totally burnout or pass out

If you have that self-awareness, and it's all about a practice of self-awareness to just check back in on a daily basis (because that is how frequent it needs to be for you to get good at this), then you won't fall to such lows.

So much of it is energetic. It's in the body. We get so used to relying on the cerebral body because we let the rest of our body be transportation systems for this is it, this who I am? If we don't tap into a deeper intelligence and I think every person let alone entrepreneur, needs that as a practice.

You also need support so you need camaraderie so you feel like you're not alone in that situation.

I think isolation is probably the worst aspect of anybody who deals with depression or deals with hard times. Making sure that you have great friendships and cultivating great friendships that aren't just acquaintances that show up to your parties or your events, but people who you can call on and they can hear it in your voice that something is going on.

I think it's those two.

Have a practice and have a support system and as you have those two modes of feedback, your internal and external, you start developing what the meaning is that you want to make in this world.

FINDING SHELTER IN THE STORM

It's just the simple things in life. It's so simple.

I'm sure it's like waking up and seeing your kid..or I know very well now the things that make me happy. Whether it's as simple like my favorite desert or my favorite thing to do on a Sunday. Or a book that I want to reread and just this practice of constantly getting present.

Ya know, a lot of people think this idea of mindfulness practices or meditation is about getting calm or being existential in some way, but actually it's honing your ability to focus and be self aware so that you can start from zero again and you can look at the world like a kid.

If I could talk to my 20 yo self, I'd say, honey, what's the practice you want to try? Right? that really connects your mind and body and allows you to kind of calibrate your self-awareness. What's the meaning you're searching for and who are you going to talk to, to develop that meaning? And then who's out there that actually has a great process?

Like the way they approach stuff just seems super ninja like and anytime they attach anything, they use the same process because there is a lot of wisdom behind that.

CAN'T HACK SELF-AWARENESS

I don't believe in hacking. I don't think hacking works. I don't think it does.

I think it works in sort of many steps when you're solving tangible problems in a business because you can kind of jump ahead, but I also think that it doesn't work in the long game and it absolutely doesn't work when it comes to self-awareness practices or getting to know yourself.

Because again, that just takes experience and maturity and time.

But I think if there were a way to sort of hack it in a sense, it is just understanding that failure is part of the process and all entrepreneurs say this and theorize this but, you almost need to practice it.

So I have this self-practice of 80/20. I can only control 20% of my life, and I look at it like if you were to look on it at in terms of time management and draw yourself a wheel and you know you're going to try to carve out 6-8 hours for sleep.

How would you carve up, that's maybe a good 30-40% of your day, how would you carve up another 30% of your day on stuff you are just like hardline focused on...you're always going to show up to that on a daily basis whether it's creation or connection or something very specific in work.

The rest of it you just let fall away.

You don't know who you are going to meet, know what crisis is going to come into your board, you don't know what economic down turn that's going to throw you off your game.

You just need to have kind of control on that 20% and be okay with failure as an option and practice it.

Actually go, I'm going to do this project for the purpose of failing and see if something else comes out of it. If I can detach enough from my ego to go there is something else in this that's not this thing that I'm going to learn from, that is a great exercise to take on.

Do these mini projects for myself. Not start-up companies, but mini initiatives where you learn little bits and you get feedback and I think if you get good at throwing things out there and reading the feedback.

Then you start to get elegant as an entrepreneur, as leader, as a parent, whatever it might be.

CHINA AND ENTREPRENEURSHIP

I think the big things that pop up for me and keep me here is one is the dynamism.

So, things keep reinventing themselves and I'm constantly surprised. There is never a point that I get to where I am an expert in this area, I know better than someone else so it challenges me in its dynamism.

Another one is you're constantly surrounded by smart people so it's a place that attracts interesting talent, even if they are coming in and going back about. You have access to these people to have great conversations.

Another one is it's pretty easy to set up a business in a sense and to experiment that business. So you can get your hands on pretty inexpensive resources to trial stuff quickly. Now it might take a lot longer to get to success here, but the experimentation phase is really easy. And I love, like there are a lot of things about China that drive me crazy, but I love the optimism and sort of the beautiful nativity sometimes of Chinese people.

They're just always ready for something new, something positive, something interesting, and I think in a lot of sophisticated markets you deal with cynicism. You deal with bogged down thinking or a lot of competitive attitudes and sarcasm.

Where as here, it's like..yeah, cool, let's do it!!!

And you're like right on, lets go for this and it's not easy.

It's definitely not an easy place and it's getting harder as it gets saturated with everyone and their grandmother and every wealthy parent telling their child to go be an entrepreneur, but I think for those who are dedicated to it, it gives them the playing ground to sort of witness and be aware of who is really good at the game and who's work listening to and then being really careful with your time and not wasting it with random people and random shit.

Shit full circle!


For more interviews from the "Entrepreneurs for Good" series, check out the playlist here.

Stay tuned for more clips and full interviews in the coming weeks.


Annie Chen

Impact Investors and Investments in Asia | Annie Chen, RS Group

Introducing our latest interviewee in the Entrepreneurs for Good interview series: Annie Chen, founder and chair of RS Group.

Before terms like “conscious capitalism”, “philanthro-capitalism”, or “blended values” began floating around in conversation in Asia, Annie Chen was developing a new strategy that has broken the mold in the industry.

Impact investing is about providing the support for others’ endeavors, backing a powerful cause, concept, or innovation. It’s requires the ability and willingness to look beyond short-term growth for a better long-term future.

However, the realm of impact investing opens up another, socially minded approach to business. These investors don’t stop at donations, charities, and fundraising – and especially in China, this kind of outright philanthropy carries a unique set of connotations.

 

“If enough people actually engage in thinking about how, through conscious and intentional placement of their capital, they can invest in the future that they create… it's only when more people do it that we have a chance of transforming the system.”
– Annie Chen, RS Group

 


HER JOURNEY IS ONE OF CONSTANT LEARNING, PATIENCE, AND COMMITMENT TO VISION.


About The Entrepreneurs For Good Series

Through this series, we speak with Asia based entrepreneurs whose mission it is to bring solutions to the environmental, social, and economic challenges that are faced within the region to learn more about their vision, the opportunities they see, and challenges that they have had to overcome. It is a series that we hope will not only engage and inspire you, but catalyze you and your organziations into action. To identify a challenge that is tangible, and build a business model (profit or non) that brings a solution to the market.


About Annie Chen

Ms. Annie Chen is the Chair of RS Group, a family office with a focus on sustainability. RS Group makes investments and grants following a “blended value” approach that ensures its total portfolio can make a lasting and positive impact for future generations.

Ms. Chen believes that one of the most pressing challenges of our time is moving the planet and its inhabitants towards sustainability. To align her values with her investments, she has committed her financial resources to socially and environmentally responsible investing. She also dedicates her time and resources toward social and environmental causes with the potential for generating positive systemic change and sustainable development. Believing the potential for change through social entrepreneurship, she is working to enhance the development of social entrepreneurship in Hong Kong and Asia.

Born and raised in Hong Kong, Ms. Chen obtained her BA from Brown University and her LLB from Columbia Law School. 

Follow Annie and RS Group
Website: http://www.rsgroup.asia/
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/rsgroupasia
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/rs-group-asia/
Twitter: http://twitter.com/rsgroupasia


About Rich

Driven by the belief that change begins with a single step, Richard Brubaker has spent the last 15 years in Asia working to engage, inspire, and equip those around him to take their first step. Acting as a catalyst to driving sustainability, Brubaker works with government, corporate, academic and non-profit stakeholders to bring together knowledge, teams, and tools that develop and execute their business case for sustainability.

Follow Rich
Website: http://www.richbrubaker.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rich.brubaker
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richbrubaker
Snapchat: http://snapchat.com/add/richbrubaker
Instagram: https://instagram.com/richbrubaker
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/richbrubaker

Contact Rich
[email protected]


Full Interview Transcript

Annie: My name is Annie Chen. I am the principal of a mid-sized family office that's based in Hong Kong, called RS Group.

For the last six years, we have been on a mission and on a journey. And our hope is to become a catalytic force in transforming our economic system so that it doesn't jeopardize the well-being of the planet or the people, but will actually us towards a path of sustainable development.

Getting Started

Annie: I did have a prior career in life as a tax lawyer. That translated very well when I moved into the family office that my parents set up. And so I was actually bringing my skill set into play by helping my own family create the appropriate legal structures to do a wealth-management setup that would achieve all the goals that family offices are supposed to achieve. A preservation of capital, and good, smooth transition - or smooth succession – plan, and also to do philanthropy.

Six years ago, I think I realized out of many years of working in that larger family office that we never asked ourself the question of “why we were doing it.” We were working under the assumption that “Well, that's what family offices do.” And I decided that there has got to be something more. And I was trying to find the meaning and the values behind doing it.

And so when the opportunity came, and I had to take responsibility for my own portfolio, I wanted to try to come up with a way of managing my capital that is in alignment with my own values.

Early Challenges

Annie: In one respect, I was very lucky, because my my parents are actually very unusual in the sense that they're very democratic. And they have never interfered - I had to take responsibility for my own pool of assets, and I had relative freedom to develop it how I wanted. The challenges really came from not having the - not being able to find people with the right expertise to help me in Asia.

We started with going to the banks, which is typically where you go out in Asia when you say “Well, I want to invest responsibly. So help me find the solutions.” And six, seven years ago, I have to say: Banks didn’t understand. They didn't know what the principles of responsible investing meant, let alone be signatories.

They had some product offerings that they were trying to sell - like, “Oh, we have water fund,” or “We have a solar fund.” But I was looking for a more holistic approach to investing. And it wasn't until I found an advisor based out of Europe that we actually start making progress towards building a sustainable portfolio.

All right, because we take a portfolio approach, we actually invest a lot through funds as opposed to directly into projects. The space where we did the most in terms of direct investments would be in Hong Kong, where we obviously are more familiar with the landscape, we are more familiar with the players. And what we decided to do there was, we wanted to encourage the building of the field or ecosystem for impact investing.

And for investors to be able to impact investing, obviously you need the projects. You need the social enterprises to invest in. And so we did a few things. We invested in some new initiatives that had no track record - for example, Social Ventures Hong Kong. I think we were one of the first batch of investors into their efforts, knowing that it would be high-risk.

So what they brought were a number of social enterprises that they incubated - but at the same time, we weren't simply investing through them into these social enterprises. We were also investing in the team at the SVHK who were trying to promote this idea of social investing, social innovation.

And even though they didn't have a track record, we were hoping that these projects eventually would be self-sustaining and might even return some capital that you can then re-invest - this whole idea of patient capital, but then recycling your dollars. We were hoping that would happen, but there was no guarantee. But we felt that in order - if nobody played, if nobody took the first step, you would not have a pipeline.

So we tried to invest strategically in a few places to start creating that ecosystem and community. Another example on this theme would be - we contributed to the creation of The Good Lab, which created a space for social entrepreneurs to exchange ideas, and to just come together.

And it's hard to say exactly what the impact of that was, but we felt that with some of the players who were supported during those early years so that they could actually grow team, grow talent, and grow projects. I think there is a lot more experiences being created out of them that would enable more people to experience what it means to invest in a social enterprise.

Well, it actually - there are numbers. I'm just not a numbers person, so I tend not to talk about them. But in our report - the impact report that we put out a few months ago - we actually try to be quite transparent about not only our journey, but the projects we invested in, and how we invest in those projects.

I know the report isn't for everyone, because the way that we look at our investments in taking a portfolio-level lens, rather than an individual investment lens, you tend to lose people because they're not all in that situation of looking at their entire capital that way. But we do share, in that report, our financial performance.

Maybe the differences in the way that we set our target - most people would say, “Oh, well we want to maximize our financial return, the highest that we can get.” How we started by looking at what we want to earn on a financial level is: How much do we need to sustain ourselves? How much do we need to generate to sustain our team, our activities, so that we aren't going to run ourselves into the ground?

So we set ourselves a relatively modest target that would be sufficient to cover our expenses, if you will. And our expenses would include our own activities, our team, as well as our grant-making. And we've achieved that objective.

I don't think my job is to tell other people how to do it because I haven't gotten my own learning journey in this. I think the strongest motivation has to come from within, not from what other people tell you you should do. If they don't find that interest, they don't find that passion, they don't find that motivation within themselves, they'll find it very easy to give up - or just stop doing it.

And I think the reason why we've been at it for so long is because we truly believe in it. And not only that, but we feel that if enough people actually engage in thinking about how, through conscious and intentional placement of their capital, they can invest in the future that they create - it's only when more people do it that we have a chance of transforming the system.

I think it has to - the conversation has to start from, if not values, then the question of what it is that you're trying to achieve. What is the problem that bugs you that you want to solve through impact investing? Get to, really, the issue that that motivates them, and then start building up from there.

So if this is the problem, let's look at the problem. What are the - are you trying to just treat the symptoms of the problem, or are you interested in the root cause? And then you start looking at – well, if that's the root cause, what are some of the possible solutions? And how does impact investing play into this, versus the philanthropic route, for example? Or, does it take both?

Whoever is interested in this space really have to ask themselves the hard question, which is “How much do I want to invest myself into learning about this?” We didn't - we started from scratch. But I did a lot of research and educating myself.

Whether it was through just Google searching stuff, “what impact investing was”, reading all sorts of reports that other people generate, the research that they've done, feeling overwhelmed - but still intrigued enough to want to wrap my head around that. Did trips, went to conferences, met people, made visits, so that I can see - really understand different viewpoints and what other people are doing.

So you've got to invest time into the learning, and not expect that, “Oh, I just make an investment, and we'll deal with that problem.” A lot of times, I think in the impact investing space, what has made it less robust than it could be is simply the fact that people are too busy to invest a lot of time.

Fear and Inspiration

Annie: I’m actually very much motivated by fear! Yeah, so of course there are the inspirational elements, but I think I'm first motivated by “fear”, in terms of really not knowing where climate change will lead us. I think we as a human race, as clever and intelligent as we think we are, we haven't really evolved to be able to really do - make very smart choices. And so I'm fairly pessimistic about where the world is headed.

I worry a lot about the future that my kids will face, and the problems that they will face. But that said, I think one has to have hope. We wouldn't be doing this if we didn't at least have some hope that, well, we can still change things for the better. So I think that's where the inspiration comes in. But no, first and foremost, I think I’m motivated by fear, unfortunately!

We are trying - we haven't perfected anything yet, but we are trying to invest – see, the phrase that I use was “We're trying to invest in the future we want to see, or create.” Because every one of us can only do so much, right?

We see the problems with capitalism in the way that it has been operating for the last 50 years. We know that it's a very powerful system, but it's broken in places. And what we're trying to get people to see is that capital markets are still the most powerful force around if you are looking for big-scale transformation.

So the challenge, then, is how to shift the capitalistic system so that it actually works towards making progress and making the world a better place, rather than contributing to problems. So, I mean, that really to me is the beginning and the end of our quest.

Finding the Transformative

Annie: I think we do look for the transformative factor in what that proposal is. We are less interested in enterprises that produce some useful results, but are limited in terms of scale. If it's simply about – it's something that other people have tried, it's just about doing it “better”, executing it “better” - we're less interested.

We're interested in bigger ideas, but done strategically and in a way that eventually could bring very significant changes - either in behavior or in the markets. So those are few and far in between.

And that's also part of the reason why we don't do a lot of direct investment, because you could - it calls for a lot of resources, from the due diligence to the monitoring, and there are a lot of things really with not within your control, and you have very concentrated risk. So we prefer to diversify through investing funds. But we are interested if the right opportunities come along. But like I said - for some reason in Hong Kong, we find very few ideas that are truly transformative.

Well, I think we need everything to change, right? Entrepreneurs may eventually become the multinationals. It might take time, but even the multinationals now started somewhere, right? So we don't say, “Oh, it's only the really determined, passionate, creative social entrepreneurs that can make change.”

No, I think we need all kinds of change, we need change to happen at a much quicker pace if we're going to make enough progress. So we need the multinationals to play a la “shared value”. If they really transform themselves into businesses that put squarely the question of “value” - and not shareholder value, but value to society first - well, we need those, too. And small/medium businesses - they actually form the majority of our communities, so we need them to play as well. So we need everyone to pitch in.

Everyone is a Change Agent

Annie: I think different impact investors - that's just one hat that they wear. They could be a business owner. They could be an employee somewhere, but they have some money to invest, and they want to invest it for impact. They could be large corporates wanting to start a new business line.

So it doesn't - so “impact investor” doesn't describe just one type of animal. They can come from everywhere, they can come from any different type of background. So I think it's really the mindset, is that if you truly believe that you can invest to generate values – and by “values”, I mean not only financial value, but social value and environmental value.

If you believe in that fact, then there's no reason why you wouldn't question, say, if you're a business owner, then “How do I create value – social, environmental, and financial value – through my own business?” Or if I'm an employee, I would ask, “So how is the company that I work in generate all those values? And if it's not, and if they only think about the financial value, am I in a position to also be a change agent? To start asking questions, like ‘Where is the environmental value that we're creating? Where is the social value that we're creating as a business?’”

So I find it interesting that people try to pigeonhole impact investing as just this one thing and kind of miss that, if you buy into impact investing, then you’re, by definition, buying into the fact that investing generates not simply financial returns - but that it could have possible positive social and environmental value generation. And if that's the case, then why shouldn't that apply across the board to all kinds of businesses?

I think, probably, younger people get it more easily - especially if they have not been already brainwashed into thinking that, while you really can't jive financial value generation with the social and environmental value generation, there's still some of those around. But by and large, I think a younger people either get it or want it to be true.

But not a lot of them are in positions of authority or power in order to do enough impact investing to make significant change. This is an overgeneralization. I think in different places, the transitions - or the succession - is happening at a different pace.

And I'm not - and I don't think that age or what generation you come from defines you in the sense that you really can't see outside of your own experience. I think everybody has the potential to look beyond that. It's a question of: Do they have the motivation? Do they have the time? Do they have the interest in looking beyond that?

If you want change to happen quickly, then obviously, those who are in positions of power are the people that you want to influence and change. But by definition, they are also the most difficult group to change, because they are in those positions because they benefited from the way the current systems work. So why would they want to dismantle that? It takes some courage, and take some, I think, insight to want to do that. So I don't have a good answer!

Some Parting Advice

Annie: I think, first of all is: Be honest with yourself as to how committed you are to get on this path. Because if you want to follow through, it will take a lot of effort, and it will take a lot of time on your own part - and resources, if you want to do it properly.

The second thing would be: Find others. There’s no need to do it by yourself and reinvent the wheel. Read our report - we do share our entire journey there, so maybe there's some bits of information there that could help make that transition easier for you. And find not only examples, but people who can actually go on the journey with you. It makes it a lot more fun.

And I guess the third thing is: Develop a sense of urgency. I think, by far, the biggest difference between people who've gone down this path much faster and further are the people who feel that there's an urgency to do so. If you think that, “Oh, this is a nice thing to do, but we have plenty of time,” that's your choice. But I don't think the world can wait.


For more interviews from the "Entrepreneurs for Good" series, check out the playlist here.

Stay tuned for more clips and full interviews in the coming weeks.


Tom Stader

Bringing a Business Mindset to the NonProfit Sector | Tom Stader, The Library Project

In our latest interview in the Entrepreneur for Good series, Tom Stader of The Library Project explains how running a non-profit is no different than running a business.

At the end of the day, you have customers, you have a business process, you have teams, and you have a vision. Navigating these shared realities bring in unique challenges for an NGO, from raising money, driving a team forward, or nailing down great partnerships.

Just as with any company, you have to be committed to providing the highest quality of service to your beneficiaries, providing a high quality of service to your clients – in this case, your donors – and finding ways to inspire all your stakeholders to aligning to your vision. Further professionalizing this donor-organization relationship is one critical step to improving China’s overall culture of philanthropy.

"For [my team], it's literacy, its programs, its libraries. It’s that, our first school in Cambodia that we donated a library to – that school, six months after we donated the library, won the best reading competition in the region. That's what gets them up in the morning. What gets me up in the morning is giving them the space to build the best organization that they can."
– Tom Stader, The Library Project

 


Tom's story is one of commitment, integrity, and pragmatism.


About The Entrepreneurs For Good Series

Through this series, we speak with Asia based entrepreneurs whose mission it is to bring solutions to the environmental, social, and economic challenges that are faced within the region to learn more about their vision, the opportunities they see, and challenges that they have had to overcome. It is a series that we hope will not only engage and inspire you, but catalyze you and your organziations into action. To identify a challenge that is tangible, and build a business model (profit or non) that brings a solution to the market.


About Tom Stader

Tom Stader is the Founder and Board Chair of The Library Project, an organization that donates libraries to under financed schools and orphanages in Cambodia, China and Vietnam. He believes that education is the key motivator to breaking the cycle of poverty that exists in the developing world.

In 2006 at the age of 32, Tom had a simple idea to donate libraries to two orphanages in Dalian, China. Soon after those libraries were complete, Tom founded The Library Project. Since then, Tom and his dedicated team have completed 1800 library donations, impacting over 500,000 eager young readers.

Tom is passionate about International Social Entrepreneurship and improving rural literacy.

Follow Tom Stader and The Library Project
Website: https://www.library-project.org
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tomstader
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomstader/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tomstader/


About Rich

Driven by the belief that change begins with a single step, Richard Brubaker has spent the last 15 years in Asia working to engage, inspire, and equip those around him to take their first step. Acting as a catalyst to driving sustainability, Brubaker works with government, corporate, academic and non-profit stakeholders to bring together knowledge, teams, and tools that develop and execute their business case for sustainability.

Follow Rich
Website: http://www.richbrubaker.com
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/rich.brubaker
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/richbrubaker
Snapchat: http://snapchat.com/add/richbrubaker
Instagram: https://instagram.com/richbrubaker
Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/richbrubaker

Contact Rich
[email protected]


Tom Stader, Entrepreneurs For Good: Full Transcription

Tom Stader: My name is Tom Stader. I run an organization called The Library Project. It’s an organization I started about 10 years ago – we're on our 10-year anniversary, so we did it. And I think when I say “we did it”, I believe our greatest accomplishment is we stayed focused over the past 10 years.

We are called The Library Project, we donate libraries, we continue to donate libraries, and that's all we do. We focus on children's literacy, and throughout the years, we have been pushed into building schools, to working on any number of other projects – and we've said “no” to all that. And I think that is a huge reason why we have been around for 10 years and why we’ll be around for many more years after this.

It wasn't because of children's literacy. I'll say that. I became a believer in our mission years after the organization actually started. It was really because I saw that there was a basic need, and I saw that I was making a small impact. That's what kept me going. Now, I guess – how did we start an organization? That came after we donated nine libraries. Someone on our “board of directors” – which was a very loose group of friends – met someone at a conference, I think in Florida. And that guy said, “You know, I really like what this guy is doing in Vietnam” – where I moved to.

Rich: Okay.

Tom: “I want to give this guy $10,000 to start an organization.” But I had to quit my job, I had to move on and actually do this full-time. And honestly, I hated my job, so it was really easy decision for me to make.

Rich: But $10,000 isn’t a lot of money, so… you know.

Tom: Well, it's a lot of money when you're broke. I mean, today: Is $10,000 a lot of money? I would say that it still is, but it's not – it was enough for us to take a risk, for me to take a risk.

And I think, putting into context – $10,000 in America, I doubt you could even start anything in America with $10,000. But in Asia, I was able to hire an employee, I was able to implement a couple of programs, a couple of libraries, so your dollar gets stretched out here a lot more than in Phoenix, Arizona or San Francisco. I couldn't even make rent for that in San Francisco.

But I do remember the first time I got a donation from someone that I’d never met, and it was guy named Alan. He read about us on some blog, and said, “Hey, I want to give you $1,000 dollars.” And I’m standing in an airport, and I'm like, “Really? I'm gonna remember this.” And then a couple years later, I actually got to meet him and let him know, like: “You were the first donor that wasn't my mother or my friends.”

Rich: The little wins, right?

Tom: Yeah, man! It really was. I mean, I think that was one of those turning points where I realized, “Hey, this could grow into something beyond myself, I guess.”

FAILURE ISN’T AN OPTION

Tom: Failure kind of really wasn't an option, so when we ran out of money, or when we ran into any number of issues that we were facing, it wasn't an option to fail. I mean, I have 27 staff members that work for the organization right now, in three different countries. We’re registered in six different countries, we've got hundreds of donors on an annual basis – failure kind of isn't an option. And it's something that drives me as an entrepreneur: to continue to grow the organization.

Rich: What do you do?

Tom: Like, what phase of the organization? Like right now, we’re 10 years in. We're doing financial forecasting for two or three years out, that we're planning two to three years out. That doesn't mean that our – what we like to call our “go broke date” is three years out. What it means is we're planning three years out.

But when I started the organization, I was planning 30 days in advance. I was like, “Do I have enough money to pay my team of one, or two, or three people at the end of the month?” That's what I was worried about.

I wasn't really worried about if our programs were going to be implemented to a high quality, or our libraries were going to be of the highest quality. That was my team's job, and that's why I hired the best people to do that. But what I was more focused on was, “Am I gonna be able to make payroll?” And that, I think, is true of most entrepreneurs in the world.

I think most entrepreneurs don't focus on the product or service at a point. They focus on, “How do I support my team so that they can do the best job?” Giving them space to implement the best libraries. I can honestly tell you, today – well, I mean, back up a bit.

Nine years – the first nine years of The Library Project, I was what you might call the “CEO of the organization”. Last year, I hired a CEO. I hired what I like to call my “boss”, which is kind of fun – and it was the best decision I ever made for me, personally.

I kind of lost the passion to grow an organization – thinking about all the finances, and the HR, and the compliance of six different countries. I mean, I did it and I was really happy about it, but I wanted to step back into the programs – and really, the reason why I started this. And get back into communication, where my professional was.

PASSION IS DIFFERENT FOR EVERYONE

Tom Stader: What gets me up in the morning is my team. 100%. Programs are very second. The literacy that we provide is very secondary – for me.

For them, it's literacy, its programs, its libraries. It’s that, our first school in Cambodia that we donated a library to – that school six months after we donated the library won the best reading competition in the region. That's what gets them up in the morning. What gets me up in the morning is giving them the space to build the best organization that they can.

BUILDING THE TEAM

Tom Stader: I think that it's hard to find people globally that… I think that once you start thinking about your teams being fundamentally different – whether they are Chinese, Vietnamese, American, Canadian. European – you're gonna run into some… You're gonna have a real issue.

I think that, fundamentally, when you come down to the basics: All teams need training. All teams want to make a pretty good salary. All of them want to feel as if they're part of something larger than themselves. They want to know that the company is going somewhere, and that they're going to be learning along the way, and that they're going to be empowered and making an impact.

I do believe that if you bring people that believe in your mission that just don't want a job – you can do an interview, and if they come in and say, “I want a comfortable job,” just don't hire them. It's the wrong position for them. We look for people that are inspired by what we do, believe in the mission, want to make a difference – whether they’re our accounting team, or whether they're the project managers on the ground doing the literacy programs at the schools, to our fundraisers.

And what I would say is, the one thing that we have not done is, we've never hired people that have experience, I would say. We've hired for passion, and then we train. And that training can occur over a six-month period, or it can happen over a seven-year period. But I personally believe its hiring for passion.

And age, gender, nationality, race –it doesn't matter. It really comes down to the passion for whatever you’re doing.

CHINA

Well, you know. I mean, I think that the world is a really big place. And I think that: Why do people donate to the organizations they donate to? Why do they donate to the issues that they donate to? Well, it’s because it's a very personal experience.

I mean, I want to support rural literacy in Asia. I've got a friend that wants to support women's issues in North America. I've got friends that want to do HIV/AIDS in Africa. And so these are all needed, and they're all relevant – and for me, I like China. I like Chinese people, I like Chinese food, I like the culture.

And getting back to why I started here: Honestly, I had US$10,000, like I said before. I got a free office space, and that was a big reason for me. I was like, “I only have $10,000, I want to start this organization, I have a free office here, and I have a potential employee might want to come on. And I like China, and there's a need.”

So it just all lined up, and it's very serendipitous that it just kind flowed. And it really was the best decision we ever made. China has been very good to us. We will be donating our 2,000th library this month. I don't think I could have achieved that if I would have set this organization up in Cambodia first. Now, Cambodia's our third country. So it's just the way it kind of played out.

And if a donor – whether it be a corporation, a foundation, or an individual – if they're not willing to support your team, do not take their money. Do not take their money. It is hurting your organization, it is hurting the industry, and it will eventually bury your organization in debt.

IT’S A BUSINESS

Tom Stader: One of the hardest things that a lot of these entrepreneurs have is that they are having a very, very difficult time coming to the realization that starting a nonprofit organization – a charitable organization – is a corporate entity. I think that produces a lot of anxiety, and they have a hard time communicating that to themselves, and also to other people.

Rich: But what do you mean it's a “corporate entity”?

Tom: It is physically corporate entity – we’re an incorporated entity based out of Phoenix, Arizona. We are an Inc. The only thing that makes us different than a bookstore down the road is that we have a tax ID that makes us a “nonprofit status”.

And that defines what we can do with our profit, and what we can't do with our profit – meaning we can't pay it out into dividends for our board of directors. You can only do that with a corporate entity. We have to reinvest it back into the organization. We can issue tax-deductible receipts. We still have to pay tax, but it's just an ID.

And I think that is that's the biggest thing: It's coming to grips that you need to find – you have to hire salespeople to fundraise for it. They're just not called “salespeople”, they're called “fundraisers”. It’s not called “revenue”, it’s called “fundraising” – but really, it’s revenue.

We have expenses, we've got income statements, we've got balance sheets, and it's a business you're starting. I think that shock occurs about six months in. And it is a rude awakening, and it’s a scary one! Because you’re like, “Oh, my god. I've got two employees. How am I gonna pay these people because I have no money?”

And then it comes down to building a quality product, a quality service, reflecting on your mission to make sure that whatever you're doing and you're creating is of quality – and staying on point, keeping a razor-sharp product service for your mission. It’s just hard.

MANAGING CASH FLOW

Tom Stader: Fundraising isn't the real challenge. I mean, yeah, you're always going to have that problem. Like when someone asks me, “What is your greatest challenge you have right now?” Like, it’s fundraising.

But really, it's cash flow. That, whether it's a for-profit, whether it's nonprofit organization: It's managing your cash flow. That, I think, gets challenging as you grow.

Well, that depends. I mean, we’ve got 10 years of history here. So I mean, the first two years. We literally had no money. We did it hand-to-mouth. We would raise money – we would raise $1,000, spend $1,000. Raise a $1,000, spend $1,000. Raise a $1,000, spend $1,000.

And then we got a donation for US$50,000, which was like, “What? Woo! We got money in the bank!” But then what happened was, we had to hire two new people to be able to implement that program to a high level of quality – which changed how we asked for funds. Then, we weren't just asking for a $1,000 dollars. We were going in looking for $10,000. $20,000. $50,000.

And the organization changed fundamentally at that point. And so as you scale, and as your revenue grows, and as your programs grow because of your revenue growing – everything grows exponentially.

There's not a lot of times where I stand back, and I say to myself, “Wow, this was a really easy day in the office.” It is hard. But then again, there are moments that keep me going – very finite moments.

Like, two months ago, I went and saw the best library donation I have ever seen at the organization. We were at like 1,950 libraries or something, and I found “the one” library that I was like, “We did it! It just took 1,950 to get here.”

If it was easy, I wouldn't do it. I'm just not interested in easy. I mean, if I wanted easy, I'd go get a job in America. You know, you get a job description, and you sit down, and you do your job. And you’re kind of protected by this insulated box.

And I'm not saying that it's easy in America, but for me, I was bored. I was sitting at a desk doing this box. I couldn't get out of that box, it was a job description, and it just was really uninteresting. And I didn't move to Asia to do that – and I didn't even know what an entrepreneur was, really, in America. It wasn't really even an option for me.

But once I started this organization, I realized, “Wow, this is really interesting. It’s really hard. It's rewarding – it's really hard. It's really hard!” And I think that… I don't know. I mean, I think that I can just say entrepreneurship is really hard, but it’s also for people who are looking for challenges and looking for something that…

Yeah, I don’t know. Yeah, I hope that answers your question!


For more interviews from the "Entrepreneurs for Good" series, check out the playlist here.

Stay tuned for more clips and full interviews in the coming weeks.